Captain's Quarters -

Bravo! I may have to start following this Penn team even though, technically, they remain a sworn enemy of any team I do support should they meet his Lions.

Nothing not to like about Paterno. At all.

I'm more concerned that the "lesser" sports have to get funding by cleaning up after the prima donna football team. Aren't football revenues shared with the entire athletics department? Who cleans up after the rugby games? The chess club?

JoePa has always been a class act. I only pray that my son has a coach of this calibre in his life at some time.

Cindy

"I'm more concerned that the "lesser" sports have to get funding by cleaning up after the prima donna football team."

The "lesser" sports bring in zero funding and are in the off season when the football team is playing.

Who cleans up after the rugby team? The 20 people who attend clean up after themselves, hopefully. Or the scrubs do.

I think it makes sense to have all of the players clean up the stadium, because they are a team. They need to think about their teammates (and the wrath of their teammates) before they do stupid things.

"I'm more concerned that the "lesser" sports have to get funding by cleaning up after the prima donna football team."

You underestimate Joe's class: the football team does the cleaning and the clubs/teams that had signed up to get the money will still get the money, i.e. they get money for nothing and the football players get the lesson.

I'm afraid I don't see it. Why is collective punishment for the misdeeds of a few a good thing? Who bears responsibility for instilling character and leadership in the team if not the coaches?

To be a little contrarian here Cap'n, JoePa has always been a tad sanctimonious and hypocritical about these things.

I recall the controversy in the early '80s when he criticized Jackie Sherrill and the Pitt program when they had a short streak of problems with players. Joe made it out as if he was the only one running a clean program. Never mind that Pitt's campus is in the middle of a city (with lots of opportunity for, um, distractions and newspapers ready to report on them) and Penn State is the 800 lb gorilla in small State College sticksville (where problems were frequently "handled" quietly).

If Joe makes this stick all season long, players don't get "excused" for whatever reasons, and behavior indeed improves I will grudgingly give him his due.

I'm afraid I don't see it. Why is collective punishment for the misdeeds of a few a good thing? Who bears responsibility for instilling character and leadership in the team if not the coaches?

"I'm afraid I don't see it. Why is collective punishment for the misdeeds of a few a good thing?"

This is exactly what the US Marines do to build unit cohesion. For a team to accomplish a team goal, they can't think of themselves as individuals, but as part of a team.

(where problems were frequently "handled" quietly).

Actually, State College tends to escalate problems.

Two players were suspended last year, for shooting arrows at a target in their dorm room.

State College bars are notorious for having students with fake IDs arrested. Underage students are arrested and fined for drinking at tailgate parties. Tailgating during the game has been forbidden (to curtail people who would stay in the parking lots for the entire game and drink heavily).

If anything, PSU is as restrictive as any program in NCAA football. And their graduation rates (80% +) reflect it.

ND: I submit that ANY college campus is "notorious" for having students with fake id's arrested. Same for underage drinking. (BTW: I got my fake ID taken from me at the Rathskellar in 1991...bastards.)

Also, this ain't the Marines...its Penn State Football. And JoPa has been over the hill for a number of years now. If he had any balls, instead of punishing the whole team, he would have kicked these guys off the team. And over the past few years, his players have been less than stellar when it comes to their personal behavior.

To be sure, the legend of JoPa's is getting long in the tooth.

CoC,

My college girlfriends ID was confiscated at the 'Skeller back in '87. It was a tragedy. Cut into my drinking time.

Was he over the hill in '05 when the referrines at the Big House, prevented the Nittany Lions from going undefeated?

If you can find an organization with better morale and unit cohesion than the USMC, please cite it.

Penn State will never be a place that gathers a great number of 5 star athletes. Yes, you can play in front of 108,000 fans on a Saturday, but it's a cold weather team located in the sticks. It's not Florida, Florida State, USC, etc., type of climate. Plus, you can't major in Advanced Sock Sorting at Penn State, like you can in the SEC.

So "team" is paramount.

And the case against Scirotto (Paterno does like those Italian kids) and Baker is weak at best. The DA at Penn State apparently attended Nifong Lawyering School. One of the guys who ID'd Chris Baker was asked to ID him in court - said "he's in this room" - but when asked to walk over to him, said "hes not here".

The whole case may crumble before the fall. But the incident was a mess and Joe is doing the right thing. As usual.

contemptofcourt is Correct on this one!

My family: my father, my aunt, my older brother, myself; and not including numerous friends and family acquaintances, have a history at Penn State, going back to 1939!

In fact, I was born and raised on our family farm, 30 miles away, over Seven Mountains, been around it my whole life, lived there, worked there, went to school there, etc.!

Anyway, the bottomline is, Joe Paterno, runs a PR/Propaganda campaign that would make the old-time Soviets/Pravada jealous by comparison.

His reputation, IN "Happy Valley", is distinctly 180 degrees opposite of what it is, for people who have never been there, and who have never lived there, and don't know any better; aided and abetted of course, by the sychophantic Mediots in the Sports news arena (and No Captn', I'm not referring to you at all!).

Criminality on the part of Penn State players, is legendary, and largely under-reported/ignored by the media, OUTSIDE State College.

But the frontpage news of half a dozen Penn State players being arrested during the offseason, has become a routine rite of passage in Happy Valley, at least since I started to attend classes there, in 1981!

Just for the record, I sat beside Todd Blackledge in African History class, and knew several other players from that era, and aside from a few "do-gooders" like Todd, and Curt Warner, and Greg Garity, the rest of the team consisted of the typical boorish, testosterone laden, spoiled, arrogant, college level football player, coddled and spoiled because of his athletic talent since 7th grade, who felt the rules didn't apply to them, and took maximum advantage of a Coach who protected them and looked the other way, and a brain addled adoring "public", and a College Administrate, grown fat, and complacent, sucking on the hind teat of College Football revenue!

Burlaries, sexual assault, simple assault against non-Players, gang rapes, drug abuse, robberies, and academic malfeasence were either not reported, covered-up, swept under the rug, or ignored by Coach, College Administration, local newspapers, etc.!

In on particular incident, in the early 80's, that I myself happened to witness, the ENTIRE rookie football team class, was caught cheating an exam in a certain class (I will not name the class, to protect the Professor, even after all this time!)

The Professor, being new to the University, actually BELIEVED all the BS put about Paterno, and Penn State, and the reputation, etc.!

So, she expelled every guilty team member from her class, gave them failing grades, etc.!

ONE phonecall from Paterno, to the Dean of the College, and the Professor was called in, and THREATENED with her job, if she insisted on that action!

The final solution, heartedly embraced by the Coach, was all the cheaters were given a passing grade "D", but not allowed back in class!

Not bad for 3 weeks work and cheating on your first Mid-term!

NO punishment ever was levied by the so-called "Coach" (Paterno) nor the College Administration against any of the players (and I knew several of the players involved, and they laughed about it!)

The Professor by the way, was informally told to find another position, at another University, after that current year was up!

Yeah, old Joe Pa, sure is a stern, integrity ridden disciplinarian alright!

That's just one of many, that I personally know about!

Bottomline: Joe Pa is a tyrant, and a fraud, he's no different than Jimmy Johnson, during his controversial time at Florida, the only difference is, Joe Pa has the National Media fooled!

In addition, State College is own personal financial fiefdom, and before his brother passed away, he was the "heavy" in business negotiations with local sponsors, securing financial favors for the family.

Not without reason, people who actually live and go to school at Penn State, whisper under their breath about the "Paterno Mafia"!

Aside from all that Joe Pa is senile, and should've retired at least 10 years ago, if not 15!

No Captn, making his players "clean" the stadium, is no show of discipline and character, it's a Propaganda Dog & Pony media show, to avoid losing some of his best players, and having them desevedly kicked off the team, and losing their scholarships!

30 years from now, people in the National Media will still be talking about how great Joe Pa was, and what a disciplinarian he was, and what great character and integrity he imbued into his players and team; but the Players themselves know what BS it is; and the people who work and live in Penn State, know it's a load of crap as well!

Wooo, bitter.

Well I went to Penn State and my brother's family still lives in the area, Port Matilda.

My brother works with Paterno frequently and thinks he's a cranky old man who needs to retire. But he and his family think highly of Joe as do their friends in neighbors in State College (rather than Atlanta).

What you've written is complete bunk, including the little story you made up. I attended Penn State during the time you talked about, and even worked for the Daily Collegian at the time and didn't hear a thing about what wrote about. And believe me, there are plenty of people at Penn State who have it in for the football program and who would have been happy to spread around the type of things you're writing of.

RE: DaleinAtlanta (May 23, 2007 3:33 PM)

Hmm. In view of new data, I retract my "bravo". If the zebra isn't honestly changing stripes, then it's a herd I'd rather not watch.

"AnonymousDrivel"

You are pretty gullible. It's not "new data" it's a pack of lies from a guy who's probably never seen Penn State, much less graduated from there.

Joe Paterno has a public record that spans 50 years. DaleintheDeepSouth puts out some lie of a story that no one can possibly check and you believe him?

Anyone who is ever praised in a trafficked internet blog, is going to be the subject of a post, that says that they know the "real" X, and he's an evil tyrant who abuses other people, etc., along with some sordid, make believe story.

Don't swallow this Dale's swill.

NoDonkey: ah, sorry, NOT complete bunk; I was there, saw it, witnessed it, knew the Professor, new a dozen of the players, knew the class etc.!

Abscence of Evidence, is not Evidence of Abscence!

You're saying because YOU didn't know about it, it didn't happen!

And I gues, when the proverbial tree falls in the woods, and you're not there, it didn't happen!

I could call 4 or 5 people I know from those days, who were with me in PSU, and THEY KNEW about and can recited the same story; so I guess that makes them liars as well?

Again, let me say categorically: this was NOT "I heard it thru the grapevine" type of things!

SAW IT; HEARD IT; WAS THERE!

End of Discussion!

I'm from Lockport by the way; worked in the Book Swap on South Fraser Street beside the Police Station during that timeframe; knew Todd Blacklege, Garity and a few others!

I didn't then, NOR I have I ever "had it in" for the PSU football team!

I was and AM a fan; I attended their games when I was there, was a fan as a kid, have been a fan since I left, and I watch their games down here, belong to the PSU Atlanta Alumni chapter (under my REAL name by the way!); and when I go home to Lockport, Dad and I sit down and watch their games together; like he's been doing since 1939!

So, nice try, but you're wrong, and I'm right.

Just because I love the team, and Penn State, doesn't mean I can't see the shortcomings, and point out the bad things!

And, I have a good friend, from Center Hall, that knows Joe Pa's family directly (a claim I have never made by the way), and he could tell you stories, to counter yours, about what a BAD guy he is, that would curl your hair.

But I won't repeat those in this forum, because there is no need to, and I don't want to expose his family..

Try again....??

Sorry, NoDonkey. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I consider my first response too hasty. I do not know what has happened over the past years to support or discredit Paterno/Penn. I do know that big school sports are fraught with abuse and special privilege, so my default position is typically to remain critical of the institutions.

This particular reference reported by Ed seemed like a good story without regard to any historical context applicable to the school. In that instance, I approve of the superficial act though I could see how it could be an attempt to deflect more extramural critique by a third party (police, for example) to keep all discipline intramural and, subsequently, retain the students as active roster players rather than expelled or arrested.

I stand by my corrected position of reserving judgment and withholding applause.

AnonymousDrivel:

I don't want you to change your opinion, of Joe Pa, or Penn State, based upon what I said!

That was not my intent; I never try to change people's opinions on anything; NoDonkey is living proof, that it is a colossal waste of time, anyhow!

I was only provding my input/and my experiences (note I did not say "opinion").

Besides, you should make up your own mind, based upon more than one input anyhow, and research, etc.

That said, pay no attention to NoDonkey; obviously, because he doesn't like what I said, for some reason, he's attempting to cast doubt on my credibility, by insinuating I know nothing about Penn State becdause I'm in Atlanta!

That's hilarious on it's face.

I was born and raised in Lockport PA (Zip Code 17044); MapQuest it to see!

My father graduated from PSU in 1943.

My Aunt graduated from PSU in 1965 with her Doctor's Degree.

I graduate from PSU in 1983 with a Degree in Foreign Service and International Relations.

I lived variously in Century Towers, on Atherton Street, as well as on Waupalani Drive.

I used to eat Pizza in the Highway Pizza, drink Beer at the Rathskeller; get Grilled Stickies at the Corner Bakery; work at the Book Swap on South Fraser Street selling comics; go to the Creamery to get my Penn State Ice Cream; go to Whipple's Dam in the summer; and antique hunting at McAlevy's Fort; cross Seven Mountains to go home to Lewistown or visit Belleville on Wednesdays, to go to the Amish Livestock Auction, etc. etc.

So, IF "NoDonkeY" thinks I've never been to Penn State now, and don't know anything about the place, he needs to come down off his Bong-high!

PS: NoDonk: I've only lived in Atlanta for the past seven years Moron, it doesn't mean I'm not from Pennsylvania, and have never been to Penn State...

What a clown...

AnonymousDrivel:

I don't want you to change your opinion, of Joe Pa, or Penn State, based upon what I said!

That was not my intent; I never try to change people's opinions on anything; NoDonkey is living proof, that it is a colossal waste of time, anyhow!

I was only provding my input/and my experiences (note I did not say "opinion").

Besides, you should make up your own mind, based upon more than one input anyhow, and research, etc.

That said, pay no attention to NoDonkey; obviously, because he doesn't like what I said, for some reason, he's attempting to cast doubt on my credibility, by insinuating I know nothing about Penn State becdause I'm in Atlanta!

That's hilarious on it's face.

I was born and raised in Lockport PA (Zip Code 17044); MapQuest it to see!

My father graduated from PSU in 1943.

My Aunt graduated from PSU in 1965 with her Doctor's Degree.

I graduate from PSU in 1983 with a Degree in Foreign Service and International Relations.

I lived variously in Century Towers, on Atherton Street, as well as on Waupalani Drive.

I used to eat Pizza in the Highway Pizza, drink Beer at the Rathskeller; get Grilled Stickies at the Corner Bakery; work at the Book Swap on South Fraser Street selling comics; go to the Creamery to get my Penn State Ice Cream; go to Whipple's Dam in the summer; and antique hunting at McAlevy's Fort; cross Seven Mountains to go home to Lewistown or visit Belleville on Wednesdays, to go to the Amish Livestock Auction, etc. etc.

So, IF "NoDonkeY" thinks I've never been to Penn State now, and don't know anything about the place, he needs to come down off his Bong-high!

PS: NoDonk: I've only lived in Atlanta for the past seven years Moron, it doesn't mean I'm not from Pennsylvania, and have never been to Penn State...

What a clown...

AnonymousDrivel:

I don't want you to change your opinion, of Joe Pa, or Penn State, based upon what I said!

That was not my intent; I never try to change people's opinions on anything; NoDonkey is living proof, that it is a colossal waste of time, anyhow!

I was only provding my input/and my experiences (note I did not say "opinion").

Besides, you should make up your own mind, based upon more than one input anyhow, and research, etc.

That said, pay no attention to NoDonkey; obviously, because he doesn't like what I said, for some reason, he's attempting to cast doubt on my credibility, by insinuating I know nothing about Penn State becdause I'm in Atlanta!

That's hilarious on it's face.

I was born and raised in Lockport PA (Zip Code 17044); MapQuest it to see!

My father graduated from PSU in 1943.

My Aunt graduated from PSU in 1965 with her Doctor's Degree.

I graduate from PSU in 1983 with a Degree in Foreign Service and International Relations.

I lived variously in Century Towers, on Atherton Street, as well as on Waupalani Drive.

I used to eat Pizza in the Highway Pizza, drink Beer at the Rathskeller; get Grilled Stickies at the Corner Bakery; work at the Book Swap on South Fraser Street selling comics; go to the Creamery to get my Penn State Ice Cream; go to Whipple's Dam in the summer; and antique hunting at McAlevy's Fort; cross Seven Mountains to go home to Lewistown or visit Belleville on Wednesdays, to go to the Amish Livestock Auction, etc. etc.

So, IF "NoDonkeY" thinks I've never been to Penn State now, and don't know anything about the place, he needs to come down off his Bong-high!

PS: NoDonk: I've only lived in Atlanta for the past seven years Moron, it doesn't mean I'm not from Pennsylvania, and have never been to Penn State...

What a clown...

AnonymousDrivel:

I don't want you to change your opinion, of Joe Pa, or Penn State, based upon what I said!

That was not my intent; I never try to change people's opinions on anything; NoDonkey is living proof, that it is a colossal waste of time, anyhow!

I was only provding my input/and my experiences (note I did not say "opinion").

Besides, you should make up your own mind, based upon more than one input anyhow, and research, etc.

That said, pay no attention to NoDonkey; obviously, because he doesn't like what I said, for some reason, he's attempting to cast doubt on my credibility, by insinuating I know nothing about Penn State becdause I'm in Atlanta!

That's hilarious on it's face.

I was born and raised in Lockport PA (Zip Code 17044); MapQuest it to see!

My father graduated from PSU in 1943.

My Aunt graduated from PSU in 1965 with her Doctor's Degree.

I graduate from PSU in 1983 with a Degree in Foreign Service and International Relations.

I lived variously in Century Towers, on Atherton Street, as well as on Waupalani Drive.

I used to eat Pizza in the Highway Pizza, drink Beer at the Rathskeller; get Grilled Stickies at the Corner Bakery; work at the Book Swap on South Fraser Street selling comics; go to the Creamery to get my Penn State Ice Cream; go to Whipple's Dam in the summer; and antique hunting at McAlevy's Fort; cross Seven Mountains to go home to Lewistown or visit Belleville on Wednesdays, to go to the Amish Livestock Auction, etc. etc.

So, IF "NoDonkeY" thinks I've never been to Penn State now, and don't know anything about the place, he needs to come down off his Bong-high!

PS: NoDonk: I've only lived in Atlanta for the past seven years Moron, it doesn't mean I'm not from Pennsylvania, and have never been to Penn State...

What a clown...

DaleinAtlanta,

No worries. I'm not blaming you. I blame Bush. ;)

AnonymousDrivel:

no there you HAVE it! IT IS Bush's fault!

He also caused my IE interface to hang up, and mysteriously post my last post, Not once, but FOUR times!

I'd couldn't do that if I tried; it would take an hour to do so!

Sorry about that, don't know why it did that, it's not interesting enough to read four times!

Anyway, I don't really care if NoDonkey doesn't believe my "story"; what irritates me is, that I grew up in and around Penn State, my Dad who was a Horticulture graduate of Alpha Gamma Rho, ran the creamery and the Dairy Barn and most of the Agronomy areas at PSU later on, and I forgotten more about Penn State and Lemont and Center Hall and Boalsburg etc., than NoDonkey ever knew, questions my credibility because I currently live in Atlanta! That torques me off, to tell the truth!

Bottomline, you should not form your opinion of Penn State, nor Joe Pa, nor the Football team, neither from my post, nor NoDonkey's nor the Captain's!

You should form your opinion of anything, including this topic, from many sources and inputs and data and research!

My post, as well as the other's, should only be data "inputs", not determitives!

That's the bottomline; that and "Bush did it", are too fundalmental truths!

As a life long fan of Paterno and PSU and a regular tailgater at 2-3 road games a season (just too far to get there from Tennessee) I have to say that this is PAR for the course with Penn State. This is nothing new. While other coaches in the Big-10 allow their players to drive brand new hummers and others make their players wear ungodly color combinations like corn and blue at PSU it has always been about the team, not the player. There is a reason only 1 Heismann has been won at PSU and lord knows they have had a ton of great QBs and running backs (Mitchell, Moore, Harris, L. Johnson to mention a few). It's all about the team at PSU. If this had been about 2 players getting into a fight off campus without a bunch of his fellow team members knowing about it, ok ... but this is one of those things where the senior leaders on the team should have stepped up and put an end to it before it started. Word around PSU was this was going to be a "special" year at PSU ... a ton of talent coming back and an experienced QB ... it still might be, but Paterno would rather build character into his team and his players than to simply throw that all aside just for winning sake.

There is not another one like him in college football today, and there may ever be one again.

WE ARE .... PENN STATE.

I'm STILL trying to deal with the horror that Cap'n Ed is a Notre Dame fan!!

Captain,

Paterno is a classic, no doubt about it.

I was fortunate to play at Yale under Carmen Cozza, who coached for many years, and would have handled this situation similarly, I think.

Jamie Irons

Does anyone else who has been a longtime reader of this Blog, and who knows the various "personalities here, "Monkei", "NoDonkey" and myself, not see the absurdly mindnumbing irony here?

On one hand, we have "NoDonkey", who if from his name and posts, we are to surmise, is Not a "Democrat", probably not a Hardcore Conservative Republican either, but certainly not a "Democrat".

Diametrically opposed on the other end of the Political spectrum, we have "Monkei"; a dyed-in-the-wool Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi Leftist, if there ever was one; apologist for all things EVIL in the world, as long as they are Anti-American and more important, Anti-Bush!

Then there is me, proud, registered, Independent, firmly in the middle, and glad of it!

And yet, the two individuals who appear to be slavish toeing the Penn State/Joe Pa "party line", with predictable shut-down-the-criticism-jihad-ferver, are the two who are diametrically opposed, and both are teaming up against me, "man-in-the-middle", for refusing to adhere to the party line, and daring to offer an alternative TRUTH to the fantasy-based fiction that they live in about Penn State!

WOW!

Somebody wake me up!

I must've died, and gone to some special double-secret-probation-10th Level of Dante's HELL, for the accursed Penn Staters!

Ah forget about it all; WE ARE PENN STATE, and I never did know the damn words to that stupid Penn State Fight song they sing at games; off to Atherton street, to gorge on Hartley's Chips, Grilled Stickies, Penn State Ice Cream, and then across the mountain to Amish country and Whoopie Pies! Maybe even snag a few of those delectible Asher's Peanut Butter eggs and Chocolate covered Utz's potato chips!

Yipee......

Dale - I don't know your motives for lying about Paterno, but you are a liar - yes, I'm calling you that directly.

I've been in and around Penn State since 1979, worked for the newspaper, have had friends and family there for 40 years, and have NEVER once heard anything akin to what you are saying.

When I was scraping through school, I worked in Pollock dining hall and served the Penn State football players. I changed the soda tanks, a pretty lowly job.

The players were very polite to me, more so than the regular students. I spent four and a half years on campus and not only did I not have a single problem with the players there, no one I knew had a single problem with the players.

I don't know why you hate Penn State and Joe Paterno, but you sir, a filthy liar and yes, I'm calling you that directly once again.

Diametrically opposed on the other end of the Political spectrum, we have "Monkei"; a dyed-in-the-wool Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi Leftist

Quite frankly Dale, you can kiss my ass. I have served this country both in active duty and another 20 years for the VA. I am more pro-American in my lifes works and actions than you could ever hope to be. Your words can be and should quickly be stuck up your ass along with my foot. I may call Bush a lot of things, and probably think alot of things about you, but I would never call him or you anti-american. People can disagree and still be pro USA ... your words are worthless, I will put my actions and my life's action above your screwed up labels.

NoDonkey and I always disagree (except for our agreement on this and past PSU posts ... this is not the first one) but he and most on here have the right to their opinion without hearing them being called traitors and cowards ... its a quick lazy approach to label those who don't agree with you ... you are a real piece of total crap.

My comments, first of all, were not even directed at you but as a comment to the original post by the Captain, I could care less about your being beat up in your past miserable life by a PSU third string trainer ... who cares.

Again, Dale, Kiss my Ass.

Thanks, Monkei and let me also say this:

People who achieve are targets. When I saw the Captain's post, I almost cringed because of course, like with anyone from the Pope to the utility infielder of the Florida Marlins, as soon as someone is lauded, anonymous "truth tellers" crawl out of the woodwork to tell everyone "he's not so great, I remember when he (xxx)."

Then, they tell a bunch of stories than can't be substantiated and get all offended if they're not believed.

Sorry, this time I've lived it and I don't buy any of it, Dale.

Joe Paterno - public figure who has built a sterling reputation for the last 50+ years.

Dale - some anonymous guy who has a few more than highly questionable stories.

I think I'll believe in Joe.

And let me tell you Dale, I'm from Pittsburgh and I know full well they're a more than a few sports writers in the 'Burgh (e.g. Gene Collier and Bob Smizick at the Post-Gazette) who would love to take Joe down a few pegs, if they could substantiate any of your wild tales.

There is not a lot of love for JoePa in Pittsburgh and these are the same writers who have no problem revealing the truth about PIttsburgh sports heroes like Terry Bradshaw and Dave Parker, they would love to beat up on JoePa.

They haven't because nothing you've written is true, Dale.

Again, Dale, Kiss my Ass.

Posted by: Monkei at May 23, 2007 7:11 PM

Ah, without going into further depth, that pretty much says it all about YOU, as opposed to me, frankly!

" I am more pro-American in my lifes works and actions than you could ever hope to be."

I'll take you up on that challenge, any time, anywhere and anyhow, and you'll lose!

By the way, you can't deny the underlying charge, despite your anger!

Sorry, nice try though....

They haven't because nothing you've written is true, Dale.

Posted by: NoDonkey at May 23, 2007 7:34 PM

Hahahah...keep believing it; but because you believe it, doesnt' make it true! Sorry...

Pittsburgh, so what, Dad is from Turtle Creek, Mom from East McKeesport; Grandparents from Forest Hills, other Grandparents from "Wall"; relatives in Monroeville, Trafford, "Ex" from Penn Hills, now living in Greensburg; former girlfriend from Squirrel Hill, etc., parents moved to Lewistown before I was born, the rest is history..

So what, ...who cares, but I can do this all day long.

I don't know any sportwriters in Pittsburgh, I don't care, and I don't read Pitttsburgh newspapers.....

Botttomline is this: what I wrote, is 100% true; and you're torqued off, because I know more about it than you, and you can't rebut it.

Also, like "Monkei", you're a 100% slavish clone, and you're mad, like the 16 year old that you are, because I not only know more about it than you, but that you can't make me retract the FACTS!

Now that I think about it, you mentioned you worked at the Dalily Collegian; should've known, you were a Journalism Major; a Leftist profession; "NoDonkey" is a pathetic attempt to disquise your true leanings, and appear to be talking from the other side!

What a pathetic trick; they's why you're upset, I've exposed your nonsense.

You and "Monkei" are two pathetic sides of the same coin....HAH!

No wonder you can't accept what I write, you're working off the same Leftist-Hive-mind....

Hahahahahaha.....how deliciously ironic......

Hahahahahaha.....

"Botttomline is this: what I wrote, is 100% true; and you're torqued off, because I know more about it than you, and you can't rebut it."

I can't rebut what isn't in the least substantiated. What should I believe, you or my lying eyes?

Apparently you, and you alone, know this dark side of Penn State. It's astonishing how this has been hidden from, well, everyone but you, apparently. It must be a . . . conspiracy. Of one.

No, I wasn't a journalism major at all, wrong again and as usual (English minor, though). You don't have to be a journalism major to work for the student newspaper, just be willing to work (because not many are, for free).

"I don't know any sportwriters in Pittsburgh, I don't care, and I don't read Pitttsburgh newspapers....."

You don't have to, but if you're story is so hot and true, why hasn't anyone picked up on it? Hmmmmm? Why hasn't the Penn State Woodward and Berstein picked up on it? Why haven't the notoriously anti-PSU Pittsburgh papers picked up on it? The ones who hate Joe Paterno, after he cancelled the series with Pitt years ago?

Because it isn't true, Dale. So the real question is, are you a Bumblebee fan or a Dawg fan, Dale in Atlanta?

I am a second generation Penn Stater (thirteen alums in my immediate family counting first cousins). My husband was class of 1977 and I was class of 1980. My sister was class of 1989. At no time, did any of us ever encounter the type of situations that Dale in Atlanta recounts. Plus I dispute the notion that everybody in Happy Valley knows the "truth" about Joepa. I was a couple of years behind Matt Bahr who if I remember was also a EE (my degree) and I never heard one whisper that he got preferential treatment from the EE faculty. Finally, I lived in West Halls where a lot of the players lived and never heard or saw anything that reflected poorly on the team.

For heaven's sake, the man still lives in the same modest house while donating millions for the library!

I'll take you up on that challenge, any time, anywhere and anyhow, and you'll lose!

If only we could put this forward to some moderate group to judge, of course I am quite aware that you mentioned "nothing" as to what you did or claim to have done. Just like your Paterno bashing, your comments are baseless and void of any facts. Your claim to fame for what I can tell is calling those who don't agree with you anti-American and pro jihadists. Maybe your claim to fame is to merely disagree and call people names, I don't know.

Then to top it off just to show how idiotic your reasoning and statements are you come out with the classic ...

You and "Monkei" are two pathetic sides of the same coin....HAH!

One needs no more proof than this statement to prove your ignorance. Anyone who has comprehension skills can simply dismiss that as grasping for straws in a already losing argument.

You can continue to push whatever it is you are thinking you are pushing Dale ... or you can merely man-up and walk away and since you are in Atlanta, have a coke, take a chill pill, and go down to Buckhead and have some cheesecake.

Again, I don't know why you jumped on my case about this PSU/Paterno thing ... all I talked about was my knowledge about my following and feelings towards the University and its program. It had nothing to do with you ... or your silly comments. I only addressed Paterno and how he deals with student athletes vs how other coaches handle them.

Okay, I'll try one more time, s...l...o...w...l...y for "NoDonkey"; and then I'll leave this go, because it really is no contest at all.

I won't address "Monkei" or any of his comments; his history, plus his predilictions, are well known on this Blog in general, and he's really not worthy of mine time, which by the way, is the reason I "jumped" on him to begin with!

Barbara: fine, your experiences are your experiences, I've got no problem with that.

Mine are mine; I know what is Fact, and I know what is opinion; mine is FACT. Yours, from your time there, is FACT from your time.
I was there a little bit later, it looks like, so I don't see where that conflicts.

But, just to emphasize the point, yes, Joe Pa's reputation, and everything I said, is highly in doubt in Happy Valley; and I have literally DOZENS of friends & family, who STILL live there, and I make the trek up from Atlanta, like clockwork 3 - 4 times per year, so I do know a bit of what I speak.

Regardless; you know what you know, I know what I know, and that's that.

As for "NoDonkey"; you get one more reply, then I put you in "Monkei's" category and we are done!

I wrote FACT!

End....of....DISCUSSION!

Notice I did not say "I heard..." or "I know someone who was involved..." etc., I said, VERY CLEARLY "Been there, done that"!

End of story; it was FACT!

I don't care if your mysterious Pittsburgh sportswriters know about it or not, it happened, I saw it, I knew the parties involved, end of story!

Also, notice, I never once said "I saw 49 Penn State players murder a puppy in front of the Carpenter Bldg, at High Noon, and 32 journalists got it on videotape!"

I never said "I went into the restroom at halftime during the Penn State-WVU game, saw Joe Pa, in the third crapper on the Left, snorting coke!

And I never said "I went into the Tiki lounge out in Monroeville one weekend, and saw Joe Pa feeling up two strippers in a back corner booth, in the dark!"

So, use a little common sense, before you shoot from the hip.

I posted a FACT, you, and Monkei have ONLY your "opinions"; nothing else.

OPINIONS I might add, that are formed from both the right & left sides of the same mole-rat mammalian Hive-brain!

i.e., or, if I put that into plain English for you, you're bought totally into the slavish Penn State/Joe Pa propaganda machine!

That's fine, if that's how you like to live?

Also, I never once said, that Joe Pa, was EVIL or a totally "bad" guy; and that the Penn State time, was composed of Death Row rejects.

I made it clear though, and still do, that there has been a lot of honsense over the years, covered-up, swept under the rug, with Joe Pa's connivance, and the College Administration's help!

END OF DISCUSSION!

I used to go to Frat parties, and watch Sean Ferrel and his buddies beat up guys half their size for fun!

Go ahead, dispute it, but it's FACT!

And Barbara, the incident I'm referring to in particular, happened in 1982; so if you didn't know about it, it doesn't matter.

So, again "NoDonkey"; the FACTS are against you!

You try to first challenge my credibility, by claiming I had never been to Penn State, nor PA in general, and I've disproved that allegation in spades; so YOUR credibility and statements are now in doubt!

Second, I've lived in Atlanta for 7 years, and I'm proud to say, that in that entire time, I've never watched a SINGLE, solitary "Bee" or "Dawg" game; can't stand them, don't watch them.

In fact, aside from Penn State games, which I sometimes get on ESPN2, and occasionally other strange networks on my DirectTV dish, or on NBC, etc., I do not watch ANY College Football!

I don't watch Bowl Games, (except if Penn State is in them); I don't watch the BCS Championship games, I don't watch ANY College Football games, EXCEPT when I can see a Penn State game!

And down here, that means, on average, I see about 2- 3 of their games, a year, max!

The rest of the time, I read abou tthem either on ESPN, follow them if I can "see" them on the ESPN "Gamecast"; or read about it that Newletter they send out, and I get about two weeks late!

IF I'm up at the farm in Lockport in the Fall, Dad and I will watch the games, because they're usually on WTAJ Channel 10!

Anyway, additional comment is a waste of time.

I've PROVED I'm from there, and what I wrote is FACT; you and "Monkei" have torqued off Opinion, and plus you're extremely irritated I've already proved you wrong on at least one account, so now you're violating all the other "Rules of Holes", in a pathetic effort to dig yourself out!

Remember NoDonkey, as I've stated to AnonymousDrivel: I don't CARE if you believe me or not, same with Monkei, it's irrelevant; I'm not "selling" anything, so I don't CARE if you're "buying" it; it's irrelevant, and just like Anonymous Drivel, I'm not trying to change the miniscule hindbrains that you and Monkei have on this issue; it's a waste of time and effort, I'm not even trying to convice you; I simply stated FACTS, that I witnessed and KNOW, and you two are, predictably, as Joe Pa thralls, sputtering in outrage, because I had the temerity to state something that was contrary to your delusions!

DEAL WITH IT!

This is the REAL WORLD; you can't BS your way thru life, and you can't get mad, every time someone disagrees with you, or proves you wrong!

PS: Monkei, every day is a "new" day for you, or you'd know who I was, and obviously, once again, you lose!

Okay, I'VE determined this thread is over for me, so comment away!

NoDonkey: Monkei:

Looks like D in A stopped taking his meds again. "HAH!"
"End of Discussion!"
"What a clown..."
"Hahahahahaha....."
I think D in A is on to something. His statements quoted in italics above added a lot of substance to my comment here :-) "Somebody wake me up!"
It's the style of a "mad 16 year old that he is."

D in A:
I'm sure you are going to reply to this. Here's my reply back in advance.
"nice try, but you're wrong, and I'm right."
"End of Discussion!"

Looks like D in A stopped taking his meds again. "HAH!"

eh ... yeah

He says he wont address me anymore in his first couple of sentences and then can't even make it through his post without doing so!

DaleinLoonyVille

All you've perhaps established is that you may or may not have lived or visited somewhere near State College at some point.

Other than that - zero. Except that you are unhinged.

Do I think JoePa and the players have a perfect record? Of course not.

But you're alleging that a guy with a stellar national reputation, who lives in a house that he probably bought 40 years ago for $25,000 is some sort of closet mafiaoso and his players are uncontrollable thugs. And you're such a high-minded individual, you even included Joe's deceased brother in your slander.

All contrary to what myself, Monkei, Barbara and 99.9% of Penn State alums experienced during our many years at Penn State.

And your proof? What you've written, nothing else. No links, no proof at all for your slander. Just your highly questionable "word".

The only thing you've "proven" at all is that no matter who the Captain chose to laud, there would be someone, somewhere who would latch onto the post in order to slander the subject.

That's just how the Internet works, I keep reminding myself. But this time, I'm not standing for it. I lived it. I know what you are saying is not true and I've called you on it.

Good to see you won't be further embarrassing yourself on this forum.

I can neither prove nor disprove Dale's story, but Paterno gave over a million dollars to the University. That tends to sway my opinion of the guy.

In the interest of full disclosure, my daughter and son-in-law are graduates.

Does anyone else think that Dale in Atlanta's writing style is surprisingly akin to Carol Herman's?

Does anyone else think that Dale in Atlanta's writing style is surprisingly akin to Carol Herman's?
Posted by: Mikey NTH at May 24, 2007 8:58 AM

I don't know who Carol Herman is, but, if I were an English teacher, he would have flunked my class. No wonder he hates journalists. The fragile grasp he has of his own language must make it very hard for him to practice the most basic reading/comprehension skills it takes to puruse a newspaper, which are mostly written toward a sixth grade reading level. Any bets on whether or not he would like English to be the official language of the US?

I also find it interesting that he claims he's a, "proud, registered, Independent, firmly in the middle, and glad of it," yet uses the disingenuious tactic of shouting over his opponent and when then that doesn't work crawls in the gutter to dredge out a bucket of slimey, unAmerican, insults, as an intimidation tactic. Yep, he's firmly entrenched in the middle of any argument. [/snark]

Getting back to his story about the football players, I'm not adverse to believing it occured. I've been in State College, since the early seventies [sorry, the keyboard on my laptop is going and I can't type numbers] and there have always been stories of how the school works, especially if they can keep the incident out of the press and the courts, to do everything they can to keep the boys on the field. It goes with the territory. What I find really unbelievable is that he was and still is outraged by the incident, but not outraged enough to bring it to the public light, himself, when he was attending school. So, where does that put him, but in the same camp as all those he decries who do nothing but protect the players, the coach and the program. If he witnessed the incident, knew of the threats to the professor and did nothing about it, he has no moral high ground upon which to stand. He's like all those players who had a chance to win the game, but, instead, dropped the ball on the one yard line, as the game clock ticked down to zero. Pity the poor troll, but don't engage him. He's too far gone to accept an intervention.

Ahhhh....what merriment....

I can't help myselfy, watching the parade of sychophants pass thru, it is too amusing...

Townie: yeah, sure, whatever on my writing style, yadda, yadda, yadda...

That's how important you're ramblings on that matter are, or how they affect me!

I will answer your one, completely unsubstantiated charge/supposition/dream-sequence about why I did not report the incident!

The Teacher, the Professor in the class, was very shaken by the whole event, and verbally threatened with her job; she was new, and didn't have tenure; she stood up for herself, to the extent that she managed to keep the players involved, from ever returning to her class; but they were not given "failing" grades, they were all given "D's".

Since she did not have "tenure", she was given the word to find another University at the end of the school year, which she did by the way, she left PSU.

As for those of us who were upset, by the incident, she asked up, NOT to make a big deal out of it, and to not take it to another level, not to pursue it, etc.; she had already created waves, and she wanted no more repurcussions on her head, nor anyone elses.

[edited for brevity. Those participating in this flame war need to post shorter comments or take it off line. I'm not going to allow 5,000 word essays, especially not on this topic. -- CE]

Dale, I thought you were done attacking me ... you can't even stick to your own words, why should anyone believe you? Judging by those commenting on your rantings, none have!

I guess it says alot when you can find two people who disagree about everything political come together to call you the butthead that you are. You are indeed a uniter! Maybe they have a job for you in the Sunni Triangle. Maybe you actually could do some good for this country besides labeling others who have.

You made your statements concerning your comments about PSU on a personal level and that is fine, I didn't even read them, don't care, I gave my personal comments and somehow I was attacked by you because I guess I had some ... but unlike you I guess I am not able to make any personal comments. And you call me un-American. My words for you were centered around you calling me what you did, not what you said about PSU. I still have not read them ... they are Carol Herman in length and who has time.

Now, try and stick to your word and move on without me, surely there must be other people you can call traitors and cowards.

How could anyone even remotely consider you moderate? You are simply another person wasting human skin and breathing air someone else could actually make good use of.

"Okay, I'VE determined this thread is over for me, so comment away!"

So I assume the tome above was written by another "Dale in Atlanta"? I know Atlanta is a large city, but how many are on this board, discussing this particular topic?

So why do you (I'll call you Dale II in Atlanta, to keep you both straight), feel it necessary to copiously document windy stories that you can't possibly prove to us are true? About someone who isn't here to defend himself? Is is fair? Is it adult?

All you have is one-sided, fishwife gossip. So why bother with it?

And yes, this just in: Joe isn't perfect. Big revelation there.

But some of the allegations you've made are pretty serious - serious enough that a responsible adult would have taken them to the authorities of the university or to the police - rather than posted them anonymously on an Internet message board, in some bizarre, pathetic effort to counter the Captain's laudatory post.

You've taught me something though. It's no picnic being successful. It puts a big bullseye on your back, that people will shoot at either to bring attention to themselves, or in an attempt to bring you down.

Monkei:

Capt edited my last comment.

He said be brief.

I will!

Quae nocent, saepe docent!

You've taught me something though. It's no picnic being successful. It puts a big bullseye on your back, that people will shoot at either to bring attention to themselves, or in an attempt to bring you down.

Ah, actually, I did neither of those, as you and NoDonkey continue to refuse to understand!

I'm a certified "nobody", living in Atlanta. At one time in the past, Joe Pa's paths and mine crossed, in life, tangentially at best, that made me aware of something.

25 years later, on a Blog, as an interesting counterpoint to the Capt's post, I put it out there! That's it, end of story!

I also reiterated some things, that anyone who lives in State College WITH OPEN EYES, knows about!

End of story!

I made no startling revelations, I made no accusations, I stated facts.

Joe Pa is famous and has money, he earned them; whatever anyone can say about him, he has amazing longevity, and he's hard working, and fiercely dedicated!

That's obvious!

"ME", bring him down??, my one little "story", is not going to dent Joe Pa's teflon, one, single, solitary iota; look at the reactions you and NoDonkey and everyone else who is a "fan" of his, are having, just from this one one 'story". It's driving you all crazy!

For what?

Because I had the temerity to say it?

Because it's true?

So what, I can't hurt him, or "bring him down", and that's not my intention anyhow.

I've said it before, I'll say it again; the Capt'n made a post, and I posted my comment for one purpose, and one purpose only, to say "Hey, okay, great, but before you buy completely into the whole facade thing, there is this!".

And afterwards, when Anonymous Drivel said that based on MY post, they were changing their mind about Joe Pa, what did I say?

I said Don't; not on my post alone; that's a decision that has to be made with other input, research, experience, etc.!

Does that sound like someone who's "out to get" Joe Pa, and "bring him down"!

Get a grip man, for gosh sakes!

As for bringing attention to myself, I've been on this Blog of the Capt's, for over a year, maybe a year and a half; I have never posted a comment, to bring "attention" to myself!

For what purpose? Am I going to get "famous" all of the sudden? C'mon, you've got to be kidding, right?

Besides, what type of attention have I "brought" upon myself, YOU and NODONKEY!

Great, that's the type I crave, for sure!

Listen, if you can't accept it for what it was, and you refuse to believe it, that's fine, I assume you're "American"; so that's your right!

Doesn't change the facts however, and it doesn't change my motivation, which was soley as a counterpoint to Capt's post (like YOU, or NoDonkey, or any other poster here have never done that, before, right?????).

I didn't tell Captn he was wrong, or his post was a waste of time, I wouldn't ever do that, seriously!

It's his Blog, he can post and edit what he likes; and I don't have to tell him that; he knows it!

So, Bottomline, quite trying to turn a molehill; heck, not even a molehill, a very, very smal anthill, into Mount Everest, move on, and deal with it!

Not all of your heroes in life, are going to make it completely thru, unscathed!

Capt: PS: I am NOT posting more than once, nor hitting the post buttom more than once; I don't know why multiple posts are coming thru...

You've taught me something though. It's no picnic being successful. It puts a big bullseye on your back, that people will shoot at either to bring attention to themselves, or in an attempt to bring you down.

Ah, actually, I did neither of those, as you and NoDonkey continue to refuse to understand!

I'm a certified "nobody", living in Atlanta. At one time in the past, Joe Pa's paths and mine crossed, in life, tangentially at best, that made me aware of something.

25 years later, on a Blog, as an interesting counterpoint to the Capt's post, I put it out there! That's it, end of story!

I also reiterated some things, that anyone who lives in State College WITH OPEN EYES, knows about!

End of story!

I made no startling revelations, I made no accusations, I stated facts.

Joe Pa is famous and has money, he earned them; whatever anyone can say about him, he has amazing longevity, and he's hard working, and fiercely dedicated!

That's obvious!

"ME", bring him down??, my one little "story", is not going to dent Joe Pa's teflon, one, single, solitary iota; look at the reactions you and NoDonkey and everyone else who is a "fan" of his, are having, just from this one one 'story". It's driving you all crazy!

For what?

Because I had the temerity to say it?

Because it's true?

So what, I can't hurt him, or "bring him down", and that's not my intention anyhow.

I've said it before, I'll say it again; the Capt'n made a post, and I posted my comment for one purpose, and one purpose only, to say "Hey, okay, great, but before you buy completely into the whole facade thing, there is this!".

And afterwards, when Anonymous Drivel said that based on MY post, they were changing their mind about Joe Pa, what did I say?

I said Don't; not on my post alone; that's a decision that has to be made with other input, research, experience, etc.!

Does that sound like someone who's "out to get" Joe Pa, and "bring him down"!

Get a grip man, for gosh sakes!

As for bringing attention to myself, I've been on this Blog of the Capt's, for over a year, maybe a year and a half; I have never posted a comment, to bring "attention" to myself!

For what purpose? Am I going to get "famous" all of the sudden? C'mon, you've got to be kidding, right?

Besides, what type of attention have I "brought" upon myself, YOU and NODONKEY!

Great, that's the type I crave, for sure!

Listen, if you can't accept it for what it was, and you refuse to believe it, that's fine, I assume you're "American"; so that's your right!

Doesn't change the facts however, and it doesn't change my motivation, which was soley as a counterpoint to Capt's post (like YOU, or NoDonkey, or any other poster here have never done that, before, right?????).

I didn't tell Captn he was wrong, or his post was a waste of time, I wouldn't ever do that, seriously!

It's his Blog, he can post and edit what he likes; and I don't have to tell him that; he knows it!

So, Bottomline, quite trying to turn a molehill; heck, not even a molehill, a very, very smal anthill, into Mount Everest, move on, and deal with it!

Not all of your heroes in life, are going to make it completely thru, unscathed!

Capt: PS: I am NOT posting more than once, nor hitting the post buttom more than once; I don't know why multiple posts are coming thru...

Okay, I thought Monkei made the last post, and I replied to him; it was in fact, You, NoDonkey who made the last post, and that was whom I was addressing!

Okay, I thought Monkei made the last post, and I replied to him; it was in fact, You, NoDonkey who made the last post, and that was whom I was addressing!

To: Dale in Atlanta

Bare this in mind as you talk out your ass...

#1) Joe Pa is Penn State. He embodies everything good about intercollegiate athletics. He cares about his players, the university, and human beings in general.

#2) If you bad mouth JoePa, you bad mouth Penn State and offend every tried and true Penn Stater.

#3) Moreover, it doesn't matter that you have a long history with the institution. It doesn't matter that you lived in State College, worked at the bookstore, ate grilled stickies, etc., etc., etc. If you bad mouth JoePa and talk trash about the university, YOU ARE NO LONGER A PENN STATER!

As an alumni, you should feel pride. You don't, no matter what you might say.

For the glory of old State,
For her founders, strong and great,
For the future that we wait.
Raise the song, raise the song.

Sing our love and loyalty,
Sing our hopes, that bright and free,
Rest o' mother, dear with thee,
All with thee, all with thee.

Again, you are no longer a Penn Stater, fat Dale. Singing words like those would be hypocritical coming out of your mouth. Stay in Atlanta... stay away from the place we love. You're a traitor and a coward... nothing more, nothing less.

Honest to god, Dale... you suck.

To: Dale in Atlanta

Bare this in mind as you talk out your ass...

#1) Joe Pa is Penn State. He embodies everything good about intercollegiate athletics. He cares about his players, the university, and human beings in general.

#2) If you bad mouth JoePa, you bad mouth Penn State and offend every tried and true Penn Stater.

#3) Moreover, it doesn't matter that you have a long history with the institution. It doesn't matter that you lived in State College, worked at the bookstore, ate grilled stickies, etc., etc., etc. If you bad mouth JoePa and talk trash about the university, YOU ARE NO LONGER A PENN STATER!

As an alumni, you should feel pride. You don't, no matter what you might say.

For the glory of old State,
For her founders, strong and great,
For the future that we wait.
Raise the song, raise the song.

Sing our love and loyalty,
Sing our hopes, that bright and free,
Rest o' mother, dear with thee,
All with thee, all with thee.

Again, you are no longer a Penn Stater, fat Dale. Singing words like those would be hypocritical coming out of your mouth. Stay in Atlanta... stay away from the place we love. You're a traitor and a coward... nothing more, nothing less.

Honest to god, Dale... you suck.

Honest to god, Dale... you suck.

Posted by: Hardly relevant at May 25, 2007 9:12 AM

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Much appreciated!

Do you have any more?

Quite frankly Dale, I would simply be satisifed with an apology for your labeling of me as a "a dyed-in-the-wool Anti-American/Pro-Jihadi Leftist,". Those were terribly things to blurt out to someone you first of all do not know and someone who merely disagrees with you from a political stance regarding the ongoing war.

I don't care what your thoughts are concerning PSU ... as I never challenged them and I know that one can always find fault with anything. My only issue with you was your labeling with the obvious hurtful words.

Atlanta Dale:

It doesn't sound like you disagree with anything I said, which is good. If you actually considered yourself a Penn Stater, I might be concerned.

Have you chosen a new university with which to affiliate yourself? Notre Dame? Miami? Michigan, perhaps? Any of these would be suitable.

Have you chosen a new university with which to affiliate yourself? Notre Dame? Miami? Michigan, perhaps? Any of these would be suitable.

Posted by: Hardly relevant at May 25, 2007 1:04 PM

That's it, that's the worst you can come up with?

C'mon......

Accusing me of being a Notre Dame fan, because I told one little story about Joe Pa, get a grip!

Wow, Jim Jones sure missed a good, willing convert in you, that's for sure!

You're the reason they invented the term "drink the Kool Aid".....

Monkei: you absolutely have me confused now; you act like you and I have never had these ideological battles, over the past year+, and this is the first time we've ever interacted!

It's been very clear for over a year:

Monkei
Chimpy
Esquirebumsome
and who could forget...
"DAVE"

That is, unless, the "old" "Monkei" left, and you are a "new" "Monkei"; IF that is the case, then I DO apologize.

However, IF you are the "old" "Monkei"; I not only do NOT apologize, but I'll start again!

Fine Dale ... you appear to be nothing more than a lost cause ... pitty.