Immigration Bill Resurrected
It's baaaa-aaaaack. The immigration bill will return to the Senate floor next week after a a flurry of deals between Harry Reid, Mitch McConnell, and the White House reinvigorated the compromise. Each party will get eleven amendments, and the White House has agreed to spend over $4 billion immediately to secure the border:
Senate leaders agreed Thursday to a list of amendments to be considered, clearing the way for debate to resume. The decision followed President Bush's announcement that he supports a move to immediately set aside more than $4 billion to beef up enforcement of immigration laws.The two actions significantly improve the chances that the Senate will pass the comprehensive bill, which would provide a path to citizenship for many of the nation's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants. "We believe that there are enough votes," White House spokesman Tony Snow said Thursday.
A senior Democratic aide said that Senate leaders agreed to specific amendments, with 11 for each side, but did not describe them.
One will certainly be the amendment drafted by Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) to guarantee that the federal government spends billions of dollars to improve border security and crack down on businesses that hire illegal workers. The measure is intended as an answer to conservatives who doubt the administration's commitment to enforcement. ...
Snow suggested that the president and other backers of the bill wanted the funding to be a part of the immigration package, not a separate measure. "All the pieces have to work together," he said. "If you disaggregate, things fall apart."
Excuse me, but that's simply not true. Border security should have already been addressed, as well as significant improvements in the visa management system. In fact, Congress has already passed mandates on both subjects. Last year, legislation authorized 854 miles of double-fence barriers on the southern border, and Congress had earlier demanded that the visa system get replaced or fixed by 2005 so that visa holders could be tracked and found if they overstayed.
Why should anyone trust this bill to address those issues when neither Congress nor the executive branch has complied with the earlier legislation? Both of these became law, with the President's signature, and yet neither has had much progress at all. Given that track record, the people have the right to demand that the government complete the tasks already assigned to it before creating vast new bureaucracies to solve other related problems.
Bush says, "[I]f you're worried about border security, you ought to be supporting this bill." The problem is that Bush and Congress have not been worried about border security, and have refused to act on it even when they have passed laws requiring them to do so. It makes their credibility on the issue so low that their lectures on the subject, like this one, sound more like bitter satire than political truth.
Bush and Congress could have built the fence authorized last year. They could have worked to revamp the visa system by the 2005 deadline demanded by Congress -- the same visa system that allowed 19 hijackers to fly planes into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center. Instead, they've used them as bargaining chips for guest-worker programs and normalization.
It's probably going to pass this time, though, if this deal holds. Even John Cornyn, who had been staunchly opposed to it, called this a "welcome development". If the guest-worker program gets restored -- in other words, if they have agreed to remove the Dorgan amendment -- the Republicans might provide the 22 votes necessary to get to cloture on the bill. With the procedural arrogance removed from the compromise, people like Jeff Sessions and Jim DeMint will have a tough time slowing this runaway train.
With 22 amendments in the agreement and the bill coming up next week, I'd expect two weeks of debate, nestling a final vote right next to the July 4th break. Expect a cloture vote on the 25th or 26th, and a July 1 or 2 final vote if they get it.
Posted by Ed Morrissey on June 15, 2007 6:39 AM | Comments (59) | TrackBacks (2)
Comments (59)
Posted by TheHat | June 15, 2007 7:02 AM
Not if I have anything to say about it.
Posted by mokie | June 15, 2007 7:14 AM
time to clean house in d.c. we need reps that will listen to the people.
Posted by RG | June 15, 2007 7:20 AM
If the American people knew that approximately 3,000 people cross the southern border each and every day, they would have a better understanding as to how serious this problem is. Instead 99% of all television "news programs" show illegals picking crops in the field when in fact only about 5% illegals are picking crops, the rest have flooded into other occupations that many younger and lower-skilled Americans used to do and would do again, if given a chance. So called "immigration reform" is really businesses desire to pay sub-standard wages to poor, desperate Mestizo from Mexico and Central America. That's all there is to it. Everything else is fluff. The only appropriate punishment for illegal immigraiton is deportation - everything else is an excuse for near-slave labor.
Remember, this is primarily about Mexico - Mexico wants and demands special permission to break our laws; they simply want to export their peasants to the USA and have the gringos take care of them. Nice deal, huh?
Posted by Lew | June 15, 2007 7:21 AM
And they STILL don't get it!
Cap'n you've put your finger on the exact point of most vital contention; TRUST! It sticks out like an exposed nerve that sends an electric shock every time its touched. Nobody trusts these people to enforce any law that makes them look bad on camera or annoys any of their big contributors or threatens their attempts to pander to the so-called "Hispanic" vote - NOBODY!
We all know that the border won't be brought under control because both parties think they can make an unbeatable voting block out of the new Hispanic Americans who sneak in our back door and take up residence in our houses. We all know that employers of any size who get raided will be burning up the phone lines to their Congress critter and they will be burning up the phone line to ICE and that will be the end of that. And worst of all, the people who perpetrate this scam are smart enough to know exactly what they are doing - and they don't care!
This is political farce of the first order and everybody knows it!
Posted by TomB | June 15, 2007 7:24 AM
So who is really so determined to push it so hard? I wonder what the Bushes are getting and who is footing the bill? What a mess....
Posted by Mike M. | June 15, 2007 7:35 AM
IF I truly believed that Bush and Congress were actually committed to securing the border and keeping the next twenty million from sneaking in, then I would be fully willing to put the ones already here on a true path to normal citizenship (I understand that they aren't going anywhere).
But the bottom line is I simply don't trust George Bush as far as I can throw him to fulfill his promise. We're going to end up getting screwed again, and I think we all know this.
Posted by MarkD | June 15, 2007 7:36 AM
"Trust me. This time it'll be different."
"The check is in the mail."
You all know the third biggest lie, so I won't try to sneak it past the captain and get myself banned.
Bush still doesn't get it. We trusted, once. We got Simpson-Mazolli which ended this problem, forever, in return for 3 million amnesties.
Now we get another promise, for 12 million amnesties.
No sale.
Posted by GeorgeH | June 15, 2007 7:42 AM
Bush has not agreed to spend anything immediately on border enforcement.
He has agreed to allocate $4 billion for border security, but that doesn't mean it will actually get spent once he gets this bill passed.
Posted by Jaded | June 15, 2007 7:48 AM
Call your Senators and fax your Senators they need to have their phones ringing off the hook so they will get it through their thick skulls this AMNESTY bill is not wanted.
Posted by mike | June 15, 2007 7:50 AM
Ditto to every comment on this subject!
Posted by mike | June 15, 2007 7:55 AM
The Polls in Washington could care less about this country or it's people!
They are pandering to the Hispanic People for Votes and the buisness community that wants the American Tax payer to subsidize Cheap Labor!
It's all about "ME" and nuttin else!
Posted by RBMN | June 15, 2007 8:10 AM
I hope the bill comes back, gets improved as much as possible, and passes so the President can sign it. And I don't think that means I'm a dirty no-good traitor to my country. The hateful rhetoric in some places on the net is just frightening. What I'd like to see us do is reduce the size of the haystack of anonymous persons living in the US. You need a carrot to do that--not a stick. The biggest security problems arrive by jet. They don't run across the Mexican border at 2:00 in the morning.
Posted by Herkeng | June 15, 2007 8:15 AM
Capt'
Thanks for the heads up. I am going to contact my Congress-Critters after this email. As Mark D. says "No Sale."
When they addressed this in '86 I had been in the Air Force for 2 years. They addressed this again in '96, I was in for 12 years. Now in 2007 they are addressing the same issue and I am retired. What a pathetic statement that makes.
I have no faith what so ever in the Executive or Legislative branches on this issue. Unfortunately the American Taxpayers interest is not being served at all. So far, all I see is pandering to special interests on this issue. What the heck is wrong with these knucleheads? The definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Are they Insane? For 20 plus years we have been told the borders would be fixed. Nope, just more laws made and more laws not enforced.
Think of the situation like this: My house gets broken into because I have a broken door on the South side of the building. I tell the wife I am going to fix it but decide to spend our resources on everything under the sun but a new secure door. After a while (10 years) and many more break ins, I tell the wife that the door is a problem and I will handle it. 11 years later, the wife is livid, so I tell her "trust me, I'll fix it." Do you think I have any credibility? Do you think she has any respect for me? Does she trust me on this issue? Heck no.
If there are any staff members from the "Hill" reading this, tell your boss, we the "average Joe's" are tired of being played as chumps. Fix the borders first, enforce the laws on the books, and maybe & just maybe we'll start buying into the rest of their additional plans. Right now, it's no deal on anything but fixing the border. Everything is a moot point until the border is secured. I am done being played.
Herkeng
Posted by roc ingersol | June 15, 2007 8:29 AM
I wonder if the bill passes, will the opponents change tactics to help make sure that the bill is successful or will they just hope that it fails to prove they were right. Seems like the same quandry the left was/is in regard to Iraq.
Posted by Keemo | June 15, 2007 8:35 AM
Don't tire folks... Their plan is simple, and based entirely upon history regarding the American voter; let them blow off steam and this will quite down, then we will bring the bill back and throw a few meaningless carrots at the people; the media will provide cover with 24/7 propaganda and the people will go back to their personal business while we wrap up this deal...
Kennedy, McCain, Bush, Graham; they are banking on the fact that we will settle down and go back to the business of makig money and paying taxes like good lil citizens; shut the f**k up, go to work, pay your taxes, and let us elites get on with our job of managing the country...
This is an issue that should unite a "large majority" of Americans in opposition of this shamnesty bill. Our attitude must be "we have only just begun to fight"... Our son's and daughter's, uncle's and aunt's, mom's and dad's, are putting their lives on the line to save "Freedom, Liberty, and Human Rights"; these people in uniform are putting it all on the line for us overseas, while trusting us to do what can be done back here in the States...
"Immigration Bill Resurrected"
Time to take the gloves off and turn this bullshit into a good ol fashioned street fight...
Oh, and BTW; did I mention what a complete moron Bush is.... What a choice we were given Bush or Kerry - Bush or Gore; pathetic.
We are in desperate need of a true leader; a leader who has not been bought; a leader who will stand behind our constitution & enforce our laws; a leader who will confront our "out of control" media; a leader who will let cops be cops & soldiers be soldiers; a leader who will secure our borders and halt illegal immigration; a leader who will bring back the products that say "made in America" on the label...
Does such a person exist?
Posted by Deb | June 15, 2007 8:41 AM
Conservatives are in danger of becoming the same moronic groupthink masses seen on the Left; radio hosts are whipping this issue for ratings, and sometimes making unfounded claims to enrage the base. We are being told not to trust the government to do what it says it is attempting to do on this bill, but instead trust the talk show hosts (who are watching their meters.). Granted, the heavy-handed way this bill was shoved at us created plenty of well-justified anger. The bill rightly needs serious study, and amendments. But please let’s not jettison this viscerally, just to make a point about our anger. For those who think that the Right can “force” the Democratic-majority Congress to do their bidding, they are deluded. We are in the minority, and may continue to be so for some time—Lord forbid—so we need to get our voices heard on specifically how to make this bill better. The Dems are anxious enough for a deal that they gave as much as the Right on this. This bill is a compromise, which is how we govern in the USA. No one gets everything they want; get over it, or be relegated to the fringes. I, for one, don’t want to see the status quo continue.
Progress on the fence building across God-forsaken land is advancing faster than the urban WTC, 5 years in the making. This is a monumental construction project. (I like someone's idea of using helicopters to drop concrete forms, myself.) Certainly, heavy funding of the fence and enforcement is needed, including the end to “sanctuary cities.” But if you read opinions of some Border Agents, much of the border area needs virtual monitoring (drones maybe??) as opposed to a physical barrier. Yet some on the Right will stick their fingers in their ears at any proposal less than the Great Wall of China.
The compromise bill creates an Electronic Employment Verification System (EEVS) so that only legal workers can get jobs. Employers will have to verify forge-proof documents, just like checking a VISA card against a national database. Fingerprints will be used. This is the most effective “fence” that we can build. Furthermore, this electronic trail at borders and employers will help with terrorist tracking.
The more we can force people out of the shadows, the better for our security. By shrinking the pool of the undocumented, the easier it is to catch those with evil intent trying to lurk in the shadows and move in and out of the country. Once the process becomes rational, there is no reason for honest people to bypass it. Immigrants will know how the point system is set up, and how to improve their points through effort, merit, skills, and education. Let’s try to make this a good bill.
(hat tip to Big Lizards and Co. for his thoughtful discourse on this over these past weeks.)
Posted by RG | June 15, 2007 8:48 AM
To RBMN - it's true that most illegal latinos are not terrorist threats but quite a few are serious criminals. Furthermore, there are muslim illegals crossing our southern border.
Plus, many of these illegal latinos are breaking several laws, shall I inform you?
1) Coming here without a visa
2) Working here while being an illegal
3) Many are getting paid under the table, no income tax withheld.
4) Many are using fake or stolen ID's, social security numbers, driver licenses, etc.
Shall I continue?
This is not immigration; it's a deal between our government and the corrupt, inept government in Mexico City that refuses to reform itself and prefers to export their Mestizo peasants so the American people can foot the bill by providing all the social welfare programs that include emergency room healthcare, educating the children of illegals among many other programs.
Posted by Keemo | June 15, 2007 9:03 AM
In an effort to fool us again, Presidente Jorge Arbusto wants to throw money at border security in return for illegal-alien amnesty.
Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC)’s response:
I appreciate the effort to fund border security, but there’s simply no reason why we should be forced to tie amnesty to it. If the administration was serious about fulfilling the border security promises, then this funding should have been supported all along, not offered at the last minute to attract votes to a bad bill.
We have a serious problem with our immigration system, but this mess of a bill is not the solution. It puts amnesty before security, contains loopholes for criminals, and will increase the burden on taxpayers.
All of the border security triggers in this bill can already be implemented under current law. It is unfortunate that the bill supporters continue to hold border security hostage in return for passage of amnesty. Instead, they need to prove to the American people that they will secure the border first. (Polipundit)
Pretty much sums it up...
Posted by Rovin | June 15, 2007 9:10 AM
Imho, this is nothing but a 21st century power-grab for a voter block that can have ramifications well into our next generation. I'm now believing that a sunset needs to be written into the entire bill (and I hated this idea at first), so that if critical misstakes are made, so we can revise and extend----or abolish if necessary.
plus an additional $4 billion up front for specific border-security funding
I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but herein lies my mis-trust----there has been little or no inforcement of border security as we now speak. Reports range from 3000/day still entering this country illegally and none of our "leaders" have come out and said enough is enough, including a President (that I voted for twice) who would have much more of my support for this bill if he had the cajones to put the border security/closure at the forefront. This is what I believe has so many up-in-arms-----the total lack of respect for the rule of law.
Posted by Monkei | June 15, 2007 9:15 AM
Oh, and BTW; did I mention what a complete moron Bush is.... What a choice we were given Bush or Kerry - Bush or Gore; pathetic.
Welcome to reality Keemo my friend, it's nice to see you have come around! I knew you would, you are way too smart not to. We will never know how bad Kerry or Gore would have been, but we have indeed found out about GWB. AND ... he was RE-ELECTED! This was just not a one time mistake, but a two timer.
I have no idea what the answer is, I know you cant send 12M people back and anyone calling for that simply is not thinking. You can't just give them amnesty, they have to earn their citizenship and we do need to secure the borders. What order you choose to do that seems to be the sticking point. This is one problem that I simply don't see a reasonable solution to, there does not seem to be a middle ground. I don't really blame the illegals here as much as I do those who employ them and make money under the table doing so ... and then we (US Citizens) all benefit from these savings that are passed along to us. So maybe the solution is to take the hit financially as responsible citizens and fine those employing the illegals to an amount greater than the savings they are reaping by employing them in the first place. If these jobs were not available, the illegals wouldn't be coming in the first place.
and we wonder why only 20 percent think this nation is heading in the right direction. well some of us wonder.
Posted by Labamigo | June 15, 2007 9:17 AM
If Sen. Cornyn is going to vote for it, it will pass.
Posted by Gary Gross | June 15, 2007 9:18 AM
The good news is that serious senators are speaking up.
The other bit of good news is that the bill faces longer odds in the House, where the various 'groups' will want to get paid off to vote for the bill. Once that happens, the bills will have to go to conference committee, followed by another potential filibuster.
Posted by Monkei | June 15, 2007 9:19 AM
Oh, and BTW; did I mention what a complete moron Bush is.... What a choice we were given Bush or Kerry - Bush or Gore; pathetic.
Welcome to reality Keemo my friend, it's nice to see you have come around! I knew you would, you are way too smart not to. We will never know how bad Kerry or Gore would have been, but we have indeed found out about GWB. AND ... he was RE-ELECTED! This was just not a one time mistake, but a two timer.
I have no idea what the answer is, I know you cant send 12M people back and anyone calling for that simply is not thinking. You can't just give them amnesty, they have to earn their citizenship and we do need to secure the borders. What order you choose to do that seems to be the sticking point. This is one problem that I simply don't see a reasonable solution to, there does not seem to be a middle ground. I don't really blame the illegals here as much as I do those who employ them and make money under the table doing so ... and then we (US Citizens) all benefit from these savings that are passed along to us. So maybe the solution is to take the hit financially as responsible citizens and fine those employing the illegals to an amount greater than the savings they are reaping by employing them in the first place. If these jobs were not available, the illegals wouldn't be coming in the first place.
and we wonder why only 20 percent think this nation is heading in the right direction. well some of us wonder.
Posted by David M | June 15, 2007 9:24 AM
Trackbacked by The Thunder Run - Web Reconnaissance for 06/14/2007
A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention.
Posted by Bobmbx | June 15, 2007 9:42 AM
In trying to assign a description to the latest effort to ram the Immigration reform bill through the congress, all that comes to mind is this:
I don't like green eggs and ham. On a train, in a plane.......
Dr. Seuss was a genius.
Posted by Rovin | June 15, 2007 9:44 AM
We will never know how bad Kerry or Gore would have been
Monkei, There's a simple formula for this. Take how bad you believe all that has taken place under Bush and multiply by 10 or 20----or in Kerry's case, 20 or 10.
And the best case scenero with Gore would have been if he was impeached in the first 30 days of office and we at least would have Lieberman to protect this nation instead of the Koran replacing the Star Spangled Banner.
Posted by Herkeng | June 15, 2007 10:01 AM
Capt' and Crew
I have sent this to the following: Alexander (R-TN) Bennett (R-UT) * Cochran (R-MS) * Coleman (R-MN) * Collins (R-ME) * Cornyn (R-TX) * Craig (R-ID) * Domenici (R-NM) Gregg (R-NH) Hatch (R-UT) Hutchison (R-TX) Kyl (R-AZ) Lott (R-MS) * McConnell (R-KY) Murkowski (R-AK) * Smith (R-OR) Snowe (R-ME) Stevens (R-AK) * Warner (R-VA). The above mentioned Senators are the ones that the Shamnesty Bill supporters need to get it passed.
Captain, I took few lines from your post since your eloquence on the issue is a heck of a lot better than mine. Hope you will not hate me for it.
Senator ______________
I am retired Air Force member who has had the honor of serving this great country of ours. I am writing you concerning the current Immigration bill. I sincerely hope your staff will pass this on to you.
I am extremely troubled by the "Comprehensive Immigration reform Bill." When Congress addressed this in '86 I had been in the Air Force for 2 years. Congress addressed this again in '96, I was in for 12 years. Now in 2007 Congress are addressing the same issue and I am retired. 20 years plus and we are dealing with the same problem. Think about how pathetic that sounds.
Congress has already passed mandates on the subject of Visa management and Border security. Last year, legislation authorized 854 miles of double-fence barriers on the southern border, and Congress had earlier demanded that the visa management system get replaced or fixed by 2005 so that visa holders could be tracked and found if they overstayed.
President Bush says, "If you're worried about border security, you ought to be supporting this bill." The problem is that President and Congress have refused to act on it even when they have passed laws requiring them to do so. President Bush and Congress could have built the fence authorized last year. They could have worked to revamp the visa system by the 2005 deadline demanded by Congress. It makes their credibility on the issue so low that their lectures on the subject, like this one, sound more like bitter satire than political truth. So with that said, I have lost faith in the Executive or Legislative branches on this issue.
I think of the situation like this: My house gets broken into because I have a broken door on the South side of the building. I tell the wife I am going to fix it but decide to spend our resources on everything under the sun but a new secure door. After a while (10 years) and many more break ins, I tell the wife that the door is a problem and I will handle it. 11 years later, the wife is livid, so I tell her "trust me, I'll fix it." Do you think I have any credibility? Do you think she has any respect for me? Does she trust me on this issue? Heck no.
Why should my family trust this bill to address those issues when neither Congress nor the executive branch has complied with the earlier legislation? Both of these became law, with the President's signature, and yet neither has had much progress at all. Given that track record, my family demands that the government complete the tasks already assigned to it. We the "average Joe's" are tired of being played as chumps. Fix the borders first, enforce the laws on the books, and maybe & just maybe we'll start buying into the rest of additional plans. Right now, it's No deal on anything but fixing the border. Everything is a moot point until the border is secured. I am done being played. The definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. This American is wondering about the sanity on the "Hill" right now.
Please VOTE NO.
My Name
MSgt USAF (Ret)
Posted by patrick neid | June 15, 2007 10:21 AM
as long as we keep pounding them on enforcement good things may happen. now that bush and company have had their fingers caought in the cookie jar the bill that comes out of the house will be the important bill. then it goes to conference. this thing has a long way to go. we can still get the bill we want.
Posted by patrick | June 15, 2007 10:21 AM
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore;
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
This is what is written on the Statue of Liberty, and I for one believe in this, and believe that this concept is what makes our country great and allows it to constantly renew itself and remain great. I think many fellow republicans are threatening this.
My grandparants came from Ireland, and the same arguements were used against them, and the Italians, and russian, chinese, and jews that I am hearing from fellow republicans saying about todays immigrants from south of the border.
Have millions crossed the border illegaly? yes. Should we protect the border and enforce the laws? Yes. But the fact remains that we need and want immigrants to reside and work here. I am amazed when I hear people say that we need to secure the border, but completely ignore market forces that drive them here. They are willing to leave their families, cross thousand of miles, cross deserts, and risk their lives with black market human trafficers, and you believe a fence will stop them?????
There is a huge labor demand in the US, there is a huge labor supply south of the border, the market has resolved this confluence.
While we are ignoring market forces, why don't we pass hundreds of laws against drugs and spend TRILLIONS of dollars over decades to stop them ? I am sure that will work too.
Posted by Angry Dumbo | June 15, 2007 10:50 AM
Snow suggested that the president and other backers of the bill wanted the funding to be a part of the immigration package, not a separate measure. "All the pieces have to work together," he said. "If you disaggregate, things fall apart."
Excuse me, but that's simply not true. Border security should have already been addressed, as well as significant improvements in the visa management system. In fact, Congress has already passed mandates on both subjects. Last year, legislation authorized 854 miles of double-fence barriers on the southern border, and Congress had earlier demanded that the visa system get replaced or fixed by 2005 so that visa holders could be tracked and found if they overstayed.
Why should anyone trust this bill to address those issues when neither Congress nor the executive branch has complied with the earlier legislation?
Captain you nailed it right there. I love Tony Snow and proudly voted for President Bush twice. Congress has no credibility on this issue. Period. Sadly, I am rapidly losing all respect I once had for Tony Snow.
Posted by quickjustice | June 15, 2007 10:52 AM
Another suicide attempt? The national Republican Party definitely has a death wish.
Neither they, nor the president, understand how little we trust them on this issue. Bluntly stated, starting in 1986, they delivered only amnesty while failing to deliver enforcement. Why should we believe anything they say now on this issue?
Fool me once, shame on you . . .
Posted by quickjustice | June 15, 2007 11:06 AM
Patrick:
You totally miss the point. We need high-skill immigrants here. They're welcome.
The low-skill immigrants from Mexico are illiterate in Spanish. They can't even read and write in their native tongue.
Because those who employ illegals are doing it to evade the minimum wage law, to evade safety standards in labor laws, and to evade the taxes it takes to support the social services (including emergency room health care) the low-skill workers use, the tax burden of providing social services to low-skill illegal workers gets dumped on those of us who aren't cheating. It's a free ride for the cheats.
Enforcement requires penalties for the free riders, meaning the employers who hire low-skill illegal workers. Penalize the employers, and the "market" dries up. This proposal is an amnesty BOTH for the illegal workers AND for their employers. The cheaters win.
Even if we grant amnesty to every illegal worker in this country today, there's no way to enforce our immigration laws in the FUTURE without sanctions against employers who violate them.
Posted by Nate | June 15, 2007 12:09 PM
Senator sessions put it politely...
Indeed. I think we all need to rally behind Sessions. He lead the fight against this bill last time and I'm sure Kennedy and Graham are looking for ways to marginalize him now. I've just e-mailed my Senators and asked them for "a decent respect for the opinions of their constituents", and ended by saying "if in doubt, follow the lead of Jeff Sessions". We need to let these fools know we're paying attention out here, or they might just pass this crap.
Posted by patrick | June 15, 2007 12:25 PM
Quickjustice,
So you are saying the creed should be re-written as,
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore;
Send these, the homeless,
THE HIGH-SKILLED INDIAN SOFTWARE ENGINEERS,
tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Gee, thanks for being so welcoming. Why is there this knee-jerk reaction against people who want to come here and work? You call them cheats. Do you think they wouldn't prefer to come here legally with and ID and work visa. Pay taxes, and become a citizen. We need them. When did our country get so small?
And to address your concerns regarding labor laws, I agree that they need to be enforced and have no disagreement there. But they need to be reasonable and in line with the market. But I need to ask, why do you put "market" in quotation marks? Do you not recognize that there is a market at work here in labor. You recognize that there are already laws on the books , but it isn't that are not just not being enforced, we are not able to enforce them all. When you place restrictions on the market, you simply make the supply more limited, and therefore more lucrative, and and create a black market . Why not address both sides of the cause, the supply side and the demand. The demand is going to be filled one way or the other.
I have a similar other-side-of the coin arguement with so-called-Liberals (not classical liberals) about labor markets and the minimum wage. For some reason people think that you can simply pass a law to control (labor) markets and all is resolved.
And regarding the use of social services, first, those working in the Black market don't pay taxes, why not broaden the tax base? I read the Heritage foundation accounting, but it seems to assert that unlike every other immigrant group, their families will remain low-skilled workers forever.
Posted by quickjustice | June 15, 2007 12:51 PM
Patrick:
I'm a New Yorker. I know who Emma Lazarus was. The Statue stands in our inner harbor. I was here on 9/11, and my friends and neighbors were butchered in the Twin Towers. I'm the child of immigrants. Most Americans are. I don't hate illegal workers. I call the EMPLOYERS who employ illegal workers cheats, not the illegal workers themselves. This is really an amnesty for employers, and one that doesn't stop with the current crop of illegals.
Peggy Noonan states my position well: http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110010210
Posted by Nate | June 15, 2007 12:57 PM
Patrick, You wrote...
That was pretty funny, but you are being very naive if you are suggesting that the creed on the statue of liberty should apply to all people in the world today. We obviously cannot absorb every person in the world who would like to live here. To do so would wreck the country. We may indeed need some people, but that's for us to decide, not them. If we ever secure the borders, then we can assess how "welcoming" we need to be.
Posted by Joe Wright | June 15, 2007 1:11 PM
Why do we need Indian software engineers? Well no one wants to live in the areas where they're in greatest demand because those areas are overrun by liberal activists.
Why can't we track down and deport 12 million illegals? Because we lack the courage to do so and tell the world, especially Mexico and the Middle East cesspools to take care of their own and quit sending them to suck on America's teat. I know we couldn't have 100% success but for everyone physically deported and fingerprinted, maybe a couple more would hesitate to come take their place.
Some of you need to spend a couple of months on jury duty and see first hand what these 'poor hard working people who are only here to do jobs Americans don't want to do' are doing to our communities. Maybe take yourself to the local emergency room with chest pains so you can wait 3 hours while the attending physician takes care of 40 or 50 illegals who won't pay 1 cent.
Bah and humbug on all of them....I do my own yard work and raise my own vegetables. I care less about the farmers and builders who want me to subsidize their cheap labor.
Posted by Rose | June 15, 2007 2:21 PM
And they STILL don't get it!
Cap'n you've put your finger on the exact point of most vital contention; TRUST! It sticks out like an exposed nerve that sends an electric shock every time its touched. Nobody trusts these people to enforce any law that makes them look bad on camera or annoys any of their big contributors or threatens their attempts to pander to the so-called "Hispanic" vote - NOBODY!
Posted by: Lew at June 15, 2007 7:21 AM
***********************
The issue of TRUST has more to do with Washington DC than merely border security.
And well they have slapped the Majority of American citizens down on THAT one!
Well they have slapped us down on the FACT that THEY KNOW we have the vast majority on our side in this issue.
It encompasses EVERYTHING they are doing.
No sooner did the Broward County commissioners bow to the will of the COUNTY RESIDENTS on the biggest and best radio station around being allowed to handle Hurricane and other emergency weather alerts, while simultaneously being the station that also broadcasts Conservative radio talk show hosts (even though they have another channel that also broadcasts LESS SUCCESSFUL Liberal talks show hosts --- THAN NEWS TODAY SAYS TRENT LOT SAYS THE NATION IS BEING RUN BY CONSERVATIVE TALK SHOW HOSTS AND THAT IS A PROBLEM THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH!
Apparently, there is no issue in America where the Politicians are willing to listen to the MAJORITY of American citizens, anymore.
I'm thankful for the fact that a majority of GOP still seem to be in our corner - but they don't seem anxious to hold their recalcitrant members in hand, or read them a few chapters of the Constitution, either!
Our Founding Fathers were NOT fans of PARTY cliques which build up oligarchies against the CITIZENS.
Our 3 branches all need a hearty cleaning out!
Posted by Monkei | June 15, 2007 2:22 PM
Ah Rovin, that's it, keep the chin up and fight away ... defend this President at all costs!
Posted by bikerken | June 15, 2007 2:28 PM
Some of you may have missed this, but when Tony Snow was on the Laure Ingraham show yesterday, he mentioned the 4 Billion dollars they were going to allocate for the border security but there was a part of it that he dribbled in real fast at the end of that sentence. He said that the 4 billion would come "out of the funds collected by the fines the illegals would pay" So while they are saying they are providing 4 billion dollars, they are not really, they are saying it will come out of the money that is collected when each one of those day laborers pays his or her $5000 fine. That is never going to happen and that money is never going to materialize. This is another example of how they are lying to us!
Posted by Rose | June 15, 2007 2:29 PM
You all know the third biggest lie, so I won't try to sneak it past the captain and get myself banned.
***********************
"Honey, who are you going to believe, what you see with your own eyes, or what I tell ya?"
That one?
Posted by Bachbone | June 15, 2007 2:34 PM
In the Bush soundbite I heard, he said the $8 billion for enforcement would come from the fines paid by illegals. Yeah, riiight! And my dead grandmother, who never voted for a Republican in her life, has volunteered to resurrect herself and vote for one next year.
We're already being bombarded with pro-amnesty groups whining that any and every requirement Bush claims makes this a "non-amnesty bill" is a hardship illegals cannot bear.
Give in on anything but "enforcement first" and the rest will get ignored or watered down till the whole package is unrecognizable and meaningless.
The GOP is up to its knees in quicksand. If this bill passes, few conservatives will be willing to toss it a lifeline.
No more RINO votes from me!
Posted by Ken Oglesby | June 15, 2007 2:38 PM
I'm not allowed to say this in the only other forum I post in,but I,for one,have completely lost confidence in President Bush.
I cannot believe he is continuing to push for something that the people of this country are so set against.
I understand that he wants to leave office with something other than Iraq on his Presidential record.
And to call the very people who elected him twice "UnAmerican" because we oppose turning the United States of America into the North American Union(read,United States of Mexico)is just unbelievable.
I can only vote in Texas,but if our Senators vote for this travesty and it becomes law,I will be voting for whoever runs against them in the primaries and if they win the primaries,I will not vote for them in the general election.
Enough is enough and we the people have to stand up and say so.
While we still have a country.
Posted by Rose | June 15, 2007 2:40 PM
There's a simple formula for this. Take how bad you believe all that has taken place under Bush and multiply by 10 or 20----or in Kerry's case, 20 or 10.
And the best case scenero with Gore would have been if he was impeached in the first 30 days of office and we at least would have Lieberman to protect this nation instead of the Koran replacing the Star Spangled Banner.
Posted by: Rovin at June 15, 2007 9:44 AM
****************************
AMEN!!!
Posted by Joe Doe | June 15, 2007 2:48 PM
Even if El Presidente would know for sure he will be booted out tomorrow, he will still sign the amensty today - my best guess is that is all $ for the regal family, since the Saudi's adventure does not seem to produce the riches that were initially expected.
The interesting part is that efforts are on both fronts - uneducated, because US does not have machines to pick up crops (really?) and educated, because why - the "no child left behind" being so successful, and American university so great (and expensive ...). They got the Amerrican worker sandwiched between the uneducated Mexicans and the educated Indians. The global MacWork .
Honestly, there is NO WAY this legislation will not pass - there is too much $ at stake for the royalties of the day - they will take the CRAPs and move on to warmer shores. The voice of America does not matter when the politicos smell the greenback - and the stink has just intensified. This time, the stakes are higher, the bribes have been enhanced for another try.
Posted by owl2 | June 15, 2007 2:56 PM
Do you people never tire of Bushbashing?
The Mex are NOT going back. You can NOT make it happen. The only thing in your power is to do the stupid.....again.....and turn an entire voting block against Pugs. Well, that mission has been accomplished. Done. You won. From what I know of the subject you were extremely successful. You beat the evil Bush to a pulp. You have turned a win into a defeat. Forever. Good job.
And the result is? Did you manage to send them back? Did you seal the border with your zeal or document them? Will you have any of their cooperation? Did you deport the damn criminals? Oh, you don't have any cooperation or documentation on those? You can't find them because so many of you are so scared of the 'family' Mex that you can't tell the difference between those and the criminal Mex and the terrorists?
I guess you cured that little problem of English? I see nada. Zip. Zero. I see the same ole Bushbashing comments that I could have read on any Lefty or Internationalist site. You won. You have delivered the message..........AGAIN.........that Pugs really are the most narrow minded, prejudiced people in this country. You can stop now. The Mex 'get it'. The rest of us 'get it'. You hate Bush. Okaaaayyyyy. So what else is new in our world.
And you think you are the only ones royally pissed? I have Mex friends. Good people who are now citizens...........and vote. The illegal immigration problem has been with us since our dearly beloved Saint Reagan opened the door. Did he intend to? I doubt it but Bush did not create it. He will not solve it because it is truly bigger than him. Yep. God he is not. But it is bigger than you also. Even Malkin/Tarcredo. You had both houses and the WH and refused to work this thing.
But hey........you won. Total destruction of the Party over this one issue. It has run underground from the first on every issue. Oh and my yes.........George W Bush must be incompetent because he nominated Miers. Okaayyyy. So why is he almost the only one I can now tolerate?
In 2008 we lose not only the Senate, House and WH.......make sure everyone chants together with the world.........it's that stupid Bush's fault. He nominated Miers.
Yeah, Nancy and Harry thanks you also. And China will still be supplying through Iran. But that's not important enough. Round them up.....head em out. In your dreams. If something is not possible, why couldn't reasonable people work for the best solution?
Posted by Project Vote Smart | June 15, 2007 3:00 PM
For more information on the Immigration Reform Act of 2007 please visit: http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=13409 or call our research hotline at 1-888-VOTE-SMART
Posted by stoo | June 15, 2007 3:33 PM
Meanwhile, on the House side there is this:
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/06/15/shock-house-passes-tancredo-measure-to-deny-emergency-funds-to-sanctuary-cities/
Posted by Rose | June 15, 2007 4:20 PM
There's a simple formula for this. Take how bad you believe all that has taken place under Bush and multiply by 10 or 20----or in Kerry's case, 20 or 10.
And the best case scenero with Gore would have been if he was impeached in the first 30 days of office and we at least would have Lieberman to protect this nation instead of the Koran replacing the Star Spangled Banner.
Posted by: Rovin at June 15, 2007 9:44 AM
****************************
AMEN!!!
Posted by poodlemom | June 15, 2007 6:07 PM
I just heard Mort Kondracke spout the nonsense about the government is now willing to spend $4 billion plus to secure the border - again, no mention that the money will be secured from the "fines" imposed on the illegals. What a joke - I can just see the gang members in LA queing up to pay their $5,000 fines....when pigs fly.
One thing I haven't heard mentioned is how the amnesty will help our economy. Nana Nancy & crew just increased the minimum wage; so the 20 million+ will not be willing to work for cheap, under the table wages. Industry will look to another generation of illegals to fill that slot......they weren't willing to pay the old minimum wage, what's changed??
I'm so tired of hearing we "can't" deport all the illegals I could spit!! Perhaps we couldn't get rid of them all, but our government hasn't even tried!! Why are so many of you willing to believe and trust the government will act differently now? Because they say so??? As the old cliche goes "actions speak louder than words".
Posted by MarkD | June 15, 2007 6:39 PM
Rose,
My version was naughtier.
I have no problem with legal immigrants. I married one. Nobody can credibly label me a racist xenophobe. The CBO came up with a net cost of over a billion dollars for this scheme, and serious observers think they understate the case by a multiple of four or more. The last time I checked, we had no shortage of poor people in this country. I don't think we need to import them.
If our country needs more software engineers, or whatever, fine. Let's establish a legal framework to allow them in. I thought we already had one - the H-1B visa program.
Maybe we should start by importing some politicians who will listen to the people and not try to ram some stupid scheme opposed over 3 to 1 by the entire populace down our throats.
Posted by Rose | June 15, 2007 7:21 PM
Tom Tancredo just won a victory in the House - withholding Fed emergency services funds from Sanctuary Cities" from the Homeland Security Dept - with 49 DIMS also voting for the measure.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5587755,00.html
Posted by Rose | June 15, 2007 7:32 PM
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore;
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
***************************************
Gee, I see NOTHING about "SEND US YOUR CRIMINAL ILLEGAL FELONIOUS CRIMINALS" or "SEND US YOUR FORGERS, YOUR HUMAN FLESH PEDDLERS, YOUR HUMAN SLAVE TRAFFICKERS, YOUR DRUG PUSHERS, YOUR COYOTES!"
Posted by Rose | June 15, 2007 7:43 PM
Rose,
My version was naughtier.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Mark, I thought it might be, but your words still reminded me of an old cartoon I saw once, the line I quoted went with a guy in his underwear standing beside his bed, his wife had just come in the door and a beautiful, buxom blonde was in the bed.
The husband was still demanding to be believed, and it was the first time I'd heard that old story that if you just keep on declaring the same thing over and over and over, you can even get even an angry wife who caught you red-handed to doubt that she ever saw anything at all, if you are just persistent enough.
It seems that in politics, that is very true!
Seemed to be generally where you were going, so I thought I'd toss it in. :) hehehehehe
Posted by Rose | June 15, 2007 7:53 PM
And BTW, I am also a little too HEINZ 57 to be accused of racism.
I'm as dark as at least half of the immigrants, with black eyes, and having a lot of blonde cousins, and we've added wonderful examples of about 5 or 6 ethnic groups to our large family in the last few years, too - all with beautiful and very intelligent children.
No grounds for RACISM charges here.
But ILLEGALS - I'm sorely tired of being put upon and having my patience tried by their destructions.
Most sorely tired of it.
And I really have no use for SOCIALISM at all!
Posted by Karen![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/nav-commenters.gif)
| June 16, 2007 3:14 AM
No one has mentioned the chain migration here. If the 12 to 20 million ILLEGALS are allowed to bring in their extended families (or just siblings, adult offspring and parents), it will rapidly spiral upwards to 100 MILLION in the next 20 years. That will rapidly change the entire AMERICAN culture that we have spent 230 years developing. Allowing 1/3 of your population to be from SOMEWHERE else inside of 20 years, will create a situation where too many people will have NO understanding of the history and heritage of this country. Democracy will quickly morph into the worst of Mexico and Venezuela, where there is a corrupt government and socialism. I just refuse to let our country go down that path without a fight. I will NOT surrender to losing our heritage.
Posted by Valdon | June 16, 2007 4:29 AM
Our elected officials are supporting what amounts to an invasion and occupation of our country. Illegal entry does NOT equal immigration!!
We are a good, and generous nation. All we ask is control over who and how many we wish to join us. Immigrating to the USA is a priveledge at the pleasure of it's citizens-NOT a right!!
This is not selfish or racist. Most nations on this planet will not grant citizenship, the right to vote, or own land unless born to parents who are citizens.
Posted by John | June 24, 2007 12:01 PM
People, what does al those hardworking people, almost all faithful christians, have to do with terrorist. There is a large group of conservatives that hijack the reasonable ideas of conservative thinking and promote hate. O yeah they want to have everything cheap for nothing, but does not want the outcome of global economy. I fully agree that there should be one language: English. Government and other public places should only have English as language. I do believe that Bush has done best for this country and the world. Fight terrorism at there place of creation and at the same humanize the society in USA by giving path to citizenship by those that have given everyhting for a better life for there family and spent all there earnings here.
Posted by Lew Orban | June 26, 2007 5:20 PM
Here is how you solve this crisis…..Number one you pass a law that gives all illegal immigrants 120 days to register and or leave the country. If the people are acting and living 5+ years in the USA like citizens they will be granted citizenship. If they are temporary workers they must register for a green card and carry it at all times and follow all laws. At 120 days any child born in the USA to an illegal citizen will be illegal too! At 120 days if any illegal immigrant is caught all USA citizens or people or business or government employees or agencies giving each of them safe harbor or support will be fined $5000 dollars too. The following will be charged $5000 fine for any help given. Landlords, Employers, Banks, DHA Government offices, Hospitals, Any government agency, Lawyers, Restaurants etc. etc.…..anyone who gives any support will pay a $5000 fine. One immigrant could stack up fines of $100,000 based on everyone involved. See you have to take away the reasons for coming here and they will go home and not come here! You must fine the behavior that is supported by our own citizens….all fines will pay for the transport and jailing and programs for all immigration….no tax dollars for this program! Watch how fast these people leave this country…..and your problem is solved!
Obewan