Captain's Quarters -

The FBI publishes the photo, and asks for public response about who the subjects are.

"We need to get some type of apology from them (the FBI) and figure out how to get back to where we were," said Rita Zawaideh, head of the Arab-American Community Coalition.

Chortle. Ms. Zawaideh sees a public photo of two dudes the FBI wants to talk with. She goes all-out to protest, on behalf of the Arab-American Community Coalition, the lack of an apology to her constituency for the FBI doing its duty. She's chuffed that the FBI did so without subjecting itself to her self-appointed veto power.

But just a gol-darned minute. The photo said nothing about the race, religion or culture of the two dudes. As others have noted, they could legitimately be thought to be Arabs, Turks, Kurds, Greeks, Spaniards, Persians, Italians, Welshmen, Armenians or dozens of other ethnicities who have members exhibiting roughly the same coloring and facial structure.

Methinks Ms. Zawaideh doth protest too much. Those blokes might not be Arabs or Muslims at all. But now we can wonder if she knows them personally, or has heard panicked complaints from their friends or relatives - and therefore she's given away the store. Her protest is practically an admission confirming that two Arab-Muslim blokes did pretty strange, organized and premeditated deeds in reconnaisance of Washington State Ferries.

We might conclude hopefully that the two probably are a couple of continents away from Puget Sound today, after the publication of that photo. But we should also wonder who their friends are, and who's inherited their mission. And if we shouldn't, at least the FBI should.

Will we be told if and when the two are nabbed? My guess is no, especially if they're not American citizens. Unless they can produce an iron-clad alibi such as being related to (Jewish) Steven Spielberg and researching a film for his next blockbuster movie about giant squids in Seattle that attack and eat ferry boats - then we'll be told that they've been found and cleared and everyone can go back to snooze mode. Since it's been a week or so now, they've either left the country, they're shacked up and hiding in a Detroit mosque, or they've been caught and are being questioned. Lots of water in the Seattle area for waterboarding.

Quick, filistro! Complain about people of color being profiled! 'red meat'!

Or, they could be living peacefully in Seattle and wholly dependent upon the Seattle P-I for their news, in which case they wouldn't know… anything.

On another thread (captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/012171.php) I am current discussing events that happened around 9/11. Five Israelis were arrested by the FBI for dancing, celebrating, and high-fiving while watching the towers burn. Two of these men were identified by the FBI as Mossad. They were driving a white van from Urban Moving Systems. Coincidentally, another white van was stopped on the George Washington bridge that contained tons of explosives. These men were quietly deported backed to Israel. The Israeli owner of Urban Moving systems also closed his business very quickly after 9/11 and moved back to Israel.

So lets say five Iranians were arrested for celebrating the 9/11 attacks, and two were identified by the FBI as Iranian revolutionary guards. They were driving a white van owned by an Iranian, and a white van was later the same day impounded on the George Washington bridge containing tons of explosives. The Iranian moving company owner quickly closes his business and moves back to Iran. Would this possibly be a little tiny bit more suspicious than two people pacing on a ferry? I think so. So why have you never heard about the story I describe? Isn’t that strange?

BTW, everything I describe was reported by the MSM. Actually, one thing I didn’t mention on the other thread was that Fox News put together a 4 part series on an Israeli spy ring operating in the US on and before 9/11. 60 were arrested by the FBI. Only part 1 of this series aired, and for some reason they decided not to show the other three parts. I wonder if it would be suspicious if the FBI caught 60 Iranian spies operating in the US around 9/11. Do you think you would have heard about that?

Let’s just focus on those pacing Muslims…

Hey Otter! BREAKING NEWS!

"This individual was spotted entering a service canal near a restricted waterway where military vessels are docked, behaving in a furtive suspicious manner. Witnesses commented on his facial hair and distinctve whiskers, and the obvious attempt to appear "casual." Many onlookers were alarmed by his appearance. We are posting this image as a public service. Please notify the FBI if you recognize this individual."

http://www.mcn.org/1/rrparks/fortross/images/otter02.jpg

Oh, and my haiku...

We don't like your looks
Picture goes in newspaper
Cry for America

On the meanwhile, as evidence grows. The silence from PI start to rival the sound of crickets.
:)

dave,

Please go back to your other thread now. We can't help you here.

dave, drop your "Truther" crap unless you can come up with some proof other than a daisy chain of Truther websites and questionable French, Arab and Iranian news agencies all quoting each other.

dave,

Please go back to your other thread now. We can't help you here.

Cap'n Ed,

As a longtime reader and sometime commenter on your blog, I think it's important to point out what seems to be a discrepancy in the way you present 2 of your current blog entries.

Your treatment of Sen. Craig as a person being humiliated for committing no crime (foot-tapping and hand waving under a bathroom stall divider) seems to reverse itself when discussing the activity of two persons on ferries in Seattle. I find no crime in the activity of these two. For clarification, I certainly support the FBI in it's effort to identify, locate, and question these fellows, and think that posting the photo's is a good thing. I also find these activities to be highly suspicious and abnormal behavior.

While you do not claim the "Ferry 2" are actually plotting anything nefarious, a reasonable person can certainly infer that you believe that's what they were up to. And I believe they were in fact performing a recon of the ferry system. I have no problem with the intent of your blog post.

In the case of Sen. Craig, a reasonable person can infer you believe the Senator is being wrongfully prosecuted (both in the court of law and in the court of public opinion). I don't see any leap of faith from suspicious activity to criminal intent in your handling of the Craig story, as that exhibited in the Ferry 2 story.

For what it's worth, I believe Sen. Craig is a homosexual desperately trying to stay in the closet and office at the same time. I believe the Ferry 2 are performing recon for the purpose of future attacks. I believe the sooner all 3 are removed from public contact, the sooner we all can take a dump and ride a ferry in peace.

TheRealSwede:
"We can't help you here."

I know that. Even using tortured right wing logic and the usual array of defense mechanisms employed to block out information, even people like you cannot come up with a coherent reply to what I bring up. So I understand that I will be ignored.

Mark F:
“unless you can come up with some proof other than a daisy chain of Truther websites and questionable French, Arab and Iranian news agencies all quoting each other”

On the other thread, I quoted Fox News, the New York Times, the Globe and Mail, Haaretz, ABC News, the New Jersey News, the ABC Network show 20/20, and the Washington Post. What the hell is wrong with you people?

I would like to disavow the comments made by my namesake up there.

Dave, we know dave is not you. And, since my response to little dave's last post got eaten by TypePad, I'd like to know what thread he is talking about, and if his quotes are actually from legitimate news organizations or if they are merely quotes from bogus stories made up by Truther websites. And my answer to his question is that we sane people don't think there is anything wrong with us.

dave,

By the way, dave, you are wrong -- the Urban Moving Systems story as you relate it is not being told by the MSM -- only by Islamic, leftist, and neonazi websites (the base story appears to be written by a Michelle Mowad for the Pottsville (PA) Mercury -- MSM count ~ .001?).

The only mainstream website detailing anything about Urban Moving Systems is a New Jersey government site indicating police had been granted a warrant to open an Urban Moving Systems warehouse so that customers who had been locked out by the owner's departure to Isreal could get their stuff; apparently the owner violated New Jersey laws (a "moving violation") by not having appointed an agent to allow access by customers to their stuff. Nothing about police arrests.

The jury really is out on this one -- every site referencing israelis and "Urban Moving Systems" seems to feed back to the Mowad article. A Michelle Mowad apparently did live in Plymouth, PA in 2001 (I found a school board meeting in Plymouth which she attended). She was a contributor to the Pottsville Mercury newspaper (I found the article on their site). Both Pottsville and Plymouth are located in central Pennsylvania. As to why a single reporter in central Pennsylvania would be the only one to write about this -- well, maybe its the "Bush/Isrealis caused 9/11 story" that was so well repressed. By the way, a search for the ethnic origin of the surname "Mowad" indicates Arabic origin.

Maybe you ought to call the FBI office in Newark, where all this supposedly went down. I'd be interested how the agents there take your call.

Dave, we know dave is not you. And, since my response to little dave's last post got eaten by TypePad, I'd like to know what thread he is talking about, and if his quotes are actually from legitimate news organizations or if they are merely quotes from bogus stories made up by Truther websites. And my answer to his question is that we sane people don't think there is anything wrong with us.

Hey Captain,

Don't you think it's odd that these men haven't yet been found to be questioned about their totally innocent behavior?

I mean ... pretty good photographs of these two men have been plastered pretty much everywhere EXCEPT in the pages of the Seattle Post-Endumbener.

Isn't it dispositive that, because these two seem to have "gone to ground" that they may in fact have been up to no good?

The fact that the nicknames, "dave" and "Dave," are both valid at the same time here is a serious flaw in this system, in my estimation. I guess I can be "cAPTAIN eD" from now on. Just kidding. :-)

Mark F:
I gave the link to the other thread above. Put "www" in front of it.

unclesmrgol:

"The only mainstream website detailing anything about Urban Moving Systems is a New Jersey government site"

Really? I found these as well:

“What those early news accounts missed, however, was that all five of the men were Israeli Jews,and that if they had box cutters, it was because at least four of them and possibly all five worked for Urban Moving Systems, a household moving company in New York and New Jersey.”
The New York Times
October 8, 2001 Monday
Late Edition - Final
5 Young Israelis, Caught in Net of Suspicion
BYLINE: By ALISON LEIGH COWAN
SECTION: Section F; Column 4; Metropolitan Desk; Pg. 3
LENGTH: 945 words

“Elsewhere, it was the incongruities that caught the attention of investigators. In Weehauken, N.J., authorities said teams of FBI agents searched a warehouse owned by Urban Moving Systems after neighbors spotted several employees jumping up and down in celebration soon after the World Trade Center attacks.”
The Washington Post
September 16, 2001 Sunday
Final Edition
2nd Witness Arrested;
25 Held for Questioning
BYLINE: Guy Gugliotta and David S. Fallis, Washington Post Staff Writers
SECTION: A SECTION; Pg. A29
LENGTH: 1510 words

“In New Jersey, where officials believe the hijackers received assistance from an accomplice, Sherri Evanina, a F.B.I. spokeswoman in Newark, said five men were detained late Tuesday after the van in which they were driving was stopped on Route 3 in East Rutherford. She said witnesses had reported seeing the men celebrating the attack on the World Trade Center earlier in the day in Union City. Angry witnesses reported the men's license plate to the authorities. The plate was registered to Urban Moving Systems, a truck-rental company based in Weehawken, N.J., Ms. Evanina said. The five men were detained on administrative grounds by the immigration service, officials said. No criminal charges have been filed against them. Dominik Suter, the owner of Urban Moving Systems, did not return telephone messages left at his office. A woman who answered the phone at the company's offices, but would not give her name, said, "We have no comment." Kerry Gill, a spokesman for the immigration service in Newark, said the F.B.I. turned over the individuals to agency on Wednesday. He said "they appeared to be Israeli citizens" and all five appear to be deportable.”
The New York Times
September 14, 2001 Friday
Late Edition - Final
AFTER THE ATTACKS: THE INVESTIGATION;
Authorities Have Learned the Identities Of 18 Hijackers, Attorney General Says
BYLINE: By JAMES RISEN and DON VAN NATTA Jr.
SECTION: Section A; Column 1; National Desk; Pg. 4
LENGTH: 1462 words
DATELINE: WASHINGTON, Sept. 13

“Alerts were put out for two vehicles, one a white Chevrolet van with New Jersey plates and the logo "Urban Moving Systems" on its side, which was believed to contain three men…”
The Independent (London)
September 13, 2001, Thursday
TERROR IN AMERICA: THE INVESTIGATION - POLICE RAID HOTEL USED BY SUSPECTS IN BOSTON
BYLINE: Andrew Gumbel And Chris Blackhurst FBI and military investigators outside the Pentagon AP; Boston police cordon off the city's Westin Hotel while FBI agents search rooms inside thought to have been used by some of the hijackers
SECTION: NEWS; Pg. 2
LENGTH: 1295 words

“The pair worked for Urban Moving Systems, a Weehawken, New Jersey moving company, and were on their way back from a delivery in Ohio. Barak said he thinks police were tipped off to look for their company's van after five of their Israeli co-workers were arrested in a company vehicle in New Jersey on Sept. 11. Neighbors there called the FBI to report the group celebrating after the terror attacks in New York and Washington.”
Associated Press Worldstream
November 12, 2001 Monday
Israelis arrested in sweeps after Sept. 11 attacks begin coming home
BYLINE: JON GREENBERG; Associated Press Writer
SECTION: INTERNATIONAL NEWS
LENGTH: 443 words
DATELINE: JERUSALEM

“About a dozen plainclothes officers, including investigators from the Bergen County Sheriff's Department, entered Urban Moving Systems at about 8 p.m. and began snapping pictures.
A few hours later, agents emerged from the building with more than 12 computer hard drives and files, piling them into the rear of a black Chevy Suburban”
The Associated Press State & Local Wire
September 15, 2001, Saturday, BC cycle
NJ locations searched in connection with terror attacks
BYLINE: By JEFFREY GOLD, Associated Press Writer
SECTION: State and Regional
LENGTH: 588 words
DATELINE: SEASIDE HEIGHTS, N.J.

“In Boston, the FBI issued an alert for a white Chevy van emblazoned with the sign ‘Urban Moving Systems.’”
Daily News (NY)
September 12, 2001, Wednesday
Bin Laden prime suspect in attacks
BYLINE: By Richard Sisk
SECTION: WASHINGTON DATELINE
LENGTH: 772 words

From the ABC show 20/20:

“START: 03.31
Teased Segment - Israeli Spies? It has been learned that Israel may have known a little bit more about the terrorist attack, in this country. Apparently, three Israeli men became an investigation with the CIA and FBI. They were being asked if they had any advanced knowledge of the attacks. The arrest of these men came from a New Jersey woman.
Visual - Footage of Maria.
Interview - Maria, says that her friend told her that she was sitting, when she heard a noise & felt like the building shook at the same time. Maria says that this was on the same day as the terror attacks.
Visual - Footage of the World Trade Center building. Maria also says that when she looked down into the parking lot, she saw a van parked. Maria also says that she saw about 3 guys on top of the van.
Visual - Tomatoes. When the CIA and FBI traced the license plates of the van, it was from the company called URBAN MOVING SYSTEMS, INC.
Visual – URBAN MOVING SYSTEMS, INC vans.
Interview - Deputy Chief Robert Del Priore, Weehawken Police Dept, says that they were alerted to look out for a Urban Moving van, with a license number that was given out.
Visual - Exterior of Giant Stadium. In the van, there was about 5 Israeli men. One of the men had $4,700 in cash, hidden in his sock, one had two foreign passports.
Graphic - Police Report from Officer Scott DeCarlos.
Graphic - Suspects.
Visual - Exterior of the J. Edgar Hoover FBI Building.
Interview - Colleen Stepcovich, says that the FBI were at Urban Moving for hours.
Visual - Interior of Urban Moving.
Visual - Nortel, AT&T NEC products.
Interview - Frank Crisp, Customer of Urban Moving, says that they were very short on the phone. The owner of Urban Moving sold his house, dropped the company, and moved back to Israel with his family.
Interview - Steve Gordon, Atty for the 5 Israelis, says that there was guys taking pictures off of a roof in New York City, speaking in a foreign language, etc.
Graphic - Newspaper Articles: "Forward". "The Forward" reported that the FBI concluded that two of them were Mossad operatives, which were part of Israeli Intelligence.
Interview - Vince Canestrelo, Fmr. Chief of Operations on Counterterrorism, says that when federal investigators checked the names of people being arrested on national intelligence, some of the names came up as hits. Vince is believing that some of the men arrested, where in the U.S. working for intelligence.
Visual - Israeli protests.
Visual - Exterior of the Department of Justice.
Visual - Coca-Cola logo.
Interview - Paul Kersburg, Israeli, says that he went to work in the United States.
Interview - Sevan Kersburg, Israeli, says that we took away 2 months of his life.
Studio Interview - Odette Elner, Israeli, says that they were coming from a country that experiences terror daily, and on purpose they documented the event.
Interview - Raum Horvitz, Israeli Atty, says that the study of the 5 boys being connected with the Israeli Intelligence, is the most ridiculous story that he has ever heard.
END: 19.18”
June 21, 2002, Friday 10:00
PM ET
20/20
NETWORK: ABC Network Programming
LENGTH: 517 words

"NJ Connection to the Terrorist attack.
Visual - In Weehawken, NJ the attacks were planned, Urban Moving Systems was a site for the planning of the attacks.
Interview - Mario Rosenthal, Resident.
Interview - Arlene Louis, Resident, says she could hurt them herself. American Airlines crashed into the Pentagon receiving,
Visual - MailBoxes Ect. in town.
Interview - Vivienne Papadatos, resident. Matt Murphy reporting.
END: 44.00
Video Monitoring Services of America
September 15, 2001, Saturday PM
News All Weekend
NETWORK: NY-1 Cable CH 1 New York
LENGTH: 78 words

"America Mourns/Michelle Caruso Cabrera. FBI agents have returned to a moving company across the river from New York's financial district. They removed 13 computer harddrives.
Visual - Urban Moving Systems RENT Trucks. Five men are being held after being caught on Tuesday in a van belonging to this company. Some are employees if Urban Moving Systems. The men were celebrating after the attack on the World Trade Center.
END: 37.53
Video Monitoring Services of America
September 14, 2001, Friday PM ET
Market Watch
NETWORK: CNBC Cable Programming
LENGTH: 76 words

“No one knows how the terrorist got onto those flights. Authorities are looking for 2 cars, right now. They are looking for a white Chevy Van with New Jersey plates. The van has a sign on the back that reads, "Urban Moving System."V; Tower Collapsing.”
Video Monitoring Services of America
September 11, 2001, Tuesday PM
WBZ 4 News
NETWORK: WBZ-TV
LENGTH: 710 words

“The respected New York Jewish newspaper, The Forward, reported in March 2002, however, that it had received a briefing on the case of the five Israelis from a US official who was regularly updated by law enforcement agencies. This is what he told The Forward: "The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it." He added that "the conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs", but the men were released because they ''did not know anything about 9/11".
Back in Israel, several of the men discussed what happened on an Israeli talk show. One of them made this remarkable comment: "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." But how can you document an event unless you know it is going to happen?”

The Sunday Herald
November 2, 2003
"Five Israelis were seen filming from the van on the right as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001. Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned a devastating terrorist attack on the USA?"
BYLINE: By Neil Mackay
SECTION: Pg. 1
LENGTH: 2491 words

The little shyster is certainly in a lather today. I wonder if it would calm him down a bit if he knew that SOME OF US ACTUALLY BELIEVE SOME OF HIS “FACTS”.

The problem is what the shyster spins with his "facts". Most people see him for what he is: A Jew-hating Communist who dreams of the day the U.S. Government is violently over thrown. He will happily use anything in his power -- including useful idiots spewing out "troofer" theories -- to bring down our elected government.

A person with such a twisted agenda is not to be trusted...regardless of his "facts".

By the way, I could explain alternative theories for the shyster's "facts"...but then I'd have to kill him...since it's all highly classified. He couldn’t handle the truth anyways…

Contrary to most of my shipmates, I hope the shyster continues making his posts here. My pals (CIA, DIA, NGA, ONI etc) are watching and collecting information. If the shyster really believed his "troofer" babble...he'd know that the evil forces can tell a lot from blog comments...nobody "really" can make an anonymous comment...the never blinking eye and all...

Two guys, out of hundreds on the loose.

Can they actually do the harms they dream of doing? Sure. But they could also "goof." Like those credentialed wonders in London, and Glasgow, did. And, where the car full of bombs, in London, parked illegally, got moved by the police to an underground garage. Lucky it didn't go BOOM, until the robot came along to "disarm" it.

So, there ya go. Incompetencies on both sides of the equation.

The other thing we've learned? These are not poor, disenfranchised "jlubs."

And, what I noticed? Gee? Harms to NYC? Or up in Seattle? Where it's Blue Country, and these islamo-fascists walk around without interference? (I can remember Peggy Noonan reporting her fears at seeing some Mideasterners, video taping the front of St. Patrick's Cathedral. And, she wondered, not why, but "could the Cathedral become a target?" Target rich. Open to the public. And, priests don't carry guns.

As to "dry runs," these two freaks have fled the country. Were they made scared enough not to try anything funny? OR did they fly into St. Paul/Minneapolis, to photograph and measure the bridge that "fell down?"

I don't suspect they stay in one spot too long.

And, I don't regard them as anything but terrorists, hoping to do as much harm as possible, with crap they buy off the shelf.

Now, we're told, "it's only a matter of time before we get a 9/11 hit, again." But if this falls in a Blue State, with easy access, how does this "halp" the Soddies in scaring us silly? Because I think IF and WHEN, then blow-back's the bitch.

little david, I know how to key in a web address, but the bulk of your ranting on that thread was anti-Semitic Palestinian ass-kissing, and the MSM and Fox quotes you provided came near the very end of a very long thread, after you moved the goalposts. Most of them were rumors and erroneous stories in the aftermath of the attack, and have long ago been put to rest. Try some valid evidence. Oh, I was a furniture mover several years ago, and I often used a box cutter. At no point did I conspire to attack our country and blame it on someone else. Little david, please take your medications and return to the real world. Your relatives will be relieved and we won't have to put up with your garbage.

Mark F;
So dozens of reports of dancing Israelis were "rumors and erroneous stories". I love it. I love how easy it is for people like you to ignore information. Never ceases to amaze me. I am sure you would have said the same thing had it been celebrating Muslims.

Unclesmrgol:
Katie Shmuel’s son was one of the Israelis arrested. He was arrested on the George Washington Bridge in a white van:

“Katie Shmuel of the Galilee town of Yokne'am has told Israeli reporters that her son, Yaron, is in "a very critical psychological situation" and has not been allowed to have visitors. She says her boy and the others were on the George Washington Bridge at the time of the terrorist attacks when the FBI received a warning that terrorists in a white van were out to blow up a bridge. The boys were stopped and arrested. The FBI claims to have found a large sum of money and two razor knives in the van.”

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_44_17/ai_80500077/pg_2

The FBI says nothing about explosives being in the van. However, when the local police initially pulled the van over, they reported that the van contained TONS of axplosives:

“Police may have narrowly averted another catastrophe, arresting three men who allegedly were driving a van full of explosives destined for the George Washington Bridge in upper Manhattan-Bronx area of New York, a television station reported Tuesday night. The WCBS-Channel 2 News report quoted police as saying the men had enough explosives to blow up the bridge, which spans the Hudson River between New Jersey and New York, if they were detonated.

CBS MarketWatch
September 12, 2001 Wednesday
Report: Police arrest 2 in van carrying explosives
BYLINE: Allen Wan, CBS.MarketWatch.com; ; Allen Wan is a news editor for CBS.MarketWatch.com in New York.
SECTION: NEWS & COMMENTARY; MARKETS
LENGTH: 199 words

“DEBORAH FEVERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I can. That is the information that I am getting from two sources, that there was a van either on the New Jersey Turnpike or the Garden State Parkway, and that it was near the George Washington Bridge. There were two or three men who were in the van that was pulled over. It is not clear why the van was pulled over, but when it was, law enforcers found tons of explosives inside of the van.”

CNN
September 11, 2001 Tuesday
SHOW: CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL 23:28
A Number Of Men Arrested With Explosives On Jersey Turnpike
BYLINE: Wolf Blitzer, Bill Hemmer, Deborah Feverick
SECTION: News; Domestic
LENGTH: 502 words

“And this is continuing CBS News coverage of the Attack on America. It may not be over yet. Tonight, a truckload of explosives was taken from a truck a--around the George Washington Bridge which spans the Hudson River from New Jersey to Manhattan. The FBI is reported to have arrested two male suspects with the truck with explosives in the vicinity of the George Washington Bridge. Authorities say there were enough explosives in the truck to bring down the bridge.”

CBS News Transcripts
September 11, 2001 Tuesday
SHOW: CBS News Special Report (7:00 PM PM ET) - CBS
Hijacked planes hit into the World Trade Center
ANCHORS: DAN RATHER
BYLINE: MARK PHILLIPS; DAVID HAWKINS; BARRY PETERSEN; CAROL MARIN; SANDRA HUGHES
LENGTH: 4696 words

Of course, if you take Mark F's lead (which is the only option available for you), I guess the police just made a mistake. I wonder what the local police really saw when they reported seeing TONS OF EXPLOSIVES in the van. Maybe it was just furniture.

Very nice, shyster. You missed your calling. You should have been an investigative reporter.

I wish I could tell you about the "explosives" we got from the van, but as I mentioned before, if I told you, I'd have to send the "black bag" man to your hideout. You wouldn't like that...

Trust me when I tell you: "You couldn't handle the truth".

dave,

By "help", I meant we here lacked the proper resources and expertise to successfully treat the particular psychological pathology from which you so obviously suffer. At least on that "other" thread we can assume you enjoy the benefit of a support group of similarly afflicted wretches.

The really scary thing is that there are female and male moonbats out there, possibly mating. So that hypothetically if filistro is kinda/sorta female and dave is sorta/kinda male, they could mate and produce .... what?

dave,

By "help", I meant we here lacked the proper resources and expertise to successfully treat the particular psychological pathology from which you so obviously suffer. At least on that "other" thread we can assume you enjoy the benefit of a support group of similarly afflicted wretches.

LOL

Swabjockey:
Here’s another quote from the Globe and Mail article I referenced on the other thread, which will relate to what I am about to say:

“Also, five of the Israelis came to the FBI's attention after they were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smouldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture.”

I admit that I may be wrong. Maybe this is what happened:

The people that saw the Israelis celebrating were mistaken. What they thought was dancing, high-fiving, and taking pictures in front of the burning towers while flicking a lighter, was all really grief and sorrow. It was a coincidence that the moving company belonged to an Israeli. It was a coincidence that he shut down his business after 9/11 to go back to Israel. It was a coincidence that at least two of the Israelis turned out to be Mossad according to the FBI. It was a coincidence that the FBI had arrested 60 Mossad agents at the time who were spying on the US. When the Israelis were pulled over, the police were mistaken when they saw tons of explosives in a van on a bridge. It was really furniture.

Is that the “truth”?

Dave,

You don't have any sense of reality. It wasn't Israelis who were cheering en masse after 9-11, it was their Middle Eastern neighbors. Why don't you work on developing the intelligence to undersand that fact, and come back later.

Back to the actual thread-
It would be an ironic turn of events if the measurements of the ferry's cargo hold were made to determine what size of bomb could be ferried into Seattle to blow up the PI building.

NahnCee, is that you? It appears you've lost your entire upper case. No problem, though... you weren't using it much anyhow....

I don't think you need have much fear about dave and I reproducing. Our offspring would surely have an IQ above 70, which would automatically disqualify him/her for any position of power in American governance.

Swabjockey:
"I'd have to send the "black bag" man to your hideout."

Please, come get me. It's not that great to face up to the reality of what the US is. It would be much easier to live in your fantasy world where the US is the moral leader of the world. Maybe you could come get me, reprogram me like in the book "1984", and I can live my life content knowing I live in such a great country.

USA is number 1!

justwondering wants to know why these two haven't "come forward" if they're "innocent."

So I'm just wondering... can you spell "Gitmo?"

dave, don't waste our precious time. Well-grounded adults are talking here. Go back to your groundhog hole!

I'd say the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. They should know by now that the public is watching their sorry butts, and that we will respond forcefully if/when they dare do damage.

Where exactly is the cargo hold on a Washington State car ferry???? (Hint. There aren't any. Duh.)

"justwondering wants to know why these two haven't "come forward" if they're "innocent."
So I'm just wondering... can you spell "Gitmo?"

That's one scenario. Ooooh. Gitmo. Ooooo. Careful Fil, weren't you the gal who ADMITTED the other day, to wandering around the state fair with her corn dog (or was it a funnel cake) box or something, looking like a bomb; and also that you are dark haired and dark eyed? Tread carefully. And be afraid, very afraid. Other state fair attending corn dog eating Italian-looking ladies have been quietly disappearing of late. You could be next sister. I'd consider bleaching your hair blonde if I were you. You can't be too careful these days...

Hmmm, why haven't these men come forward, unless they've been Gitmoed....

Here is another possibilty: Can you spell: "Hiding in a mosque in Dearborn?"

Or, can you spell: "Quietly spirited across our wide-open porous borders, in order to lay low for awhile?"

Or, technically perfectly innocent, but would rather investigators NOT know of their connections to Hezbollah or some other similar peace-loving Islamist organization.

Or, perfectly innocent except for being an illegal alien, so that is why they are laying low.

Or, perfectly innocent citizen or legal resident, but would rather lay low due to outstanding warrants for failure to pay child support?

Or, innocent of anything, but simply shy and hates any sort of public attention?

Nah....gotta be that they've been nabbed, and Dick Cheney is personally overseeing their waterboarding. Right Fil?

dave,

I've managed so far just the first article -- NY Times. A search under all Cowan's articles does NOT yield the one you are quoting. Nor does a search limited to 2001. Is this going to be the way it is for them all, or will you offer up some LINKS so we can get the stuff from a primary source.

Or maybe Bush has had all the stuff removed from the NYT online archives, and you are lucky enough to have clippings.

Who knows?

unclesmrgol:
Either your not searching correctly, or the NYT does not archive everything. I get my info from Lexis Nexis, which I have unlimited access to. You can get alacarte service, which allows you to do searching for free. You'll get the title, author, etc. If you want the text it is 3 bucks per article. I'll save you the money. Here's the first article you mention in its entirety, but I doubt if the Captain will enjoy me doing this often:

The New York Times
October 8, 2001 Monday
Late Edition - Final
5 Young Israelis, Caught in Net of Suspicion
BYLINE: By ALISON LEIGH COWAN
SECTION: Section F; Column 4; Metropolitan Desk; Pg. 3
LENGTH: 945 words

As their lawyer tells it, when the five young men were picked up by F.B.I. agents in midday on Sept. 11, they had a box cutter with them. One man carried $4,000 in cash, another had two passports.
In short, there probably were good reasons to be suspicious of the men who became the subjects of widespread news coverage.
What those early news accounts missed, however, was that all five of the men were Israeli Jews, and that if they had box cutters, it was because at least four of them and possibly all five worked for Urban Moving Systems, a household moving company in New York and New Jersey.
They are now facing deportation for overstaying their visas and other immigration offenses, but their lawyer says their case is a reminder that though roughly 500 people have now been detained as part of the crackdown on possible terrorists, that does not mean all of them are part of any terror network.
Driving a large van across the George Washington Bridge toward Manhattan hours after the deadly attack on American landmarks, the five men, well built and in their 20's, were speaking in a foreign language. They appeared to be from the Middle East. By some accounts, they seemed to be making light of the tragic situation.
Besides the cash and the passports, one man had fresh pictures of the smoldering wreckage of the trade center in his camera, images he had captured by standing rather conspicuously on the roof of the van.
The men were taken into custody, with news reports leaving the wide impression that the authorities had detained a group of suspicious men taking pictures or rooting for the terrorists from the New Jersey side of the bridge.
They have spent much of the last 27 days inside the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, getting a firsthand glimpse of a side of New York they never dreamed of seeing when they came to the United States as tourists. As much as anything, friends and families say, they came seeking a respite from life in a war zone.
These days, they would be thrilled to return. Shortly after the five Israelis arrived at the detention center, a group of Pakistani Muslims pressured them to join in a hunger strike, according to the Israelis' lawyer, Steven Noah Gordon. That only fortified the impression inside the prison that somehow "they were all together," and invited threats from non-Muslims, he said. For their own safety, he said, they now each have separate cells.
According to Mr. Gordon, his clients were also blindfolded during interrogations, handcuffed in confinement, and forced to take polygraph tests. Though they were technically being held by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, Mr. Gordon said, they were told ominously that if they failed to cooperate, they could be charged with violations of obscure "black-humor statutes" which, in limited circumstances, allow people to be prosecuted for cracking jokes about security matters like airplane hijackings.
Government officials are refusing to disclose much about the identities or whereabouts of the people who have been detained as part of the manhunt for the suicide hijackers' accomplices. They are divulging even less about the 150 or so who are being held on immigration charges. Some detainees no doubt have useful information about the terrorists' plot. Others seem to have done nothing more than tip off the authorities during questioning that they were living or working here illegally.
"The F.B.I. is vacuuming up everything, good, bad and indifferent," said James Oslow, an immigration lawyer in Philadelphia representing two Turkish detainees, whose truck broke down near a military base.
Washington, he said, would "rather lock everybody up as a means to convince the public they're doing everything appropriate."
A spokesman for the Justice Department in Washington, Dan Nelson, refused to discuss particulars of the Israelis' case or to confirm that that they were in custody. This reporter, who approached the Metropolitan Detention Center on Friday, was turned away.
Mr. Gordon, who was initially hired by the family of one of the detainees, Oded Ellner, on Sept. 17, agreed to represent the other four pro bono as a favor to the Israeli consulate in New York. "This is a huge misunderstanding," said Yigal Tzarfati, an official with the consulate. The five men in detention, he said, "have nothing to do with the bombings."
Mr. Gordon said he did not believe his clients were advised of their rights until he was allowed to visit them on Sept. 25. "They were beside themselves," he said.
Even then, he said, six to eight guards sat in on their meetings and forbade them from speaking any language but English. "It's the strangest case I've ever seen," said Mr. Gordon, who said his clients had "absolutely nothing" to do with terrorists.
Inside the prison, mistrust has been running so deep that a visiting rabbi appeared indifferent when asked to help the Israelis get prayer books for the Jewish High Holy Days last month, according to Mr. Gordon.
On Sept. 25, all five signed papers acknowledging violations of United States immigration law. One, Sivan Kurzberg, admitted working illegally on a tourist visa. His brother, Paul Kurzberg, along with Yaron Shmuel and Mr. Ellner, conceded they had overstayed their visas.
The fifth man, Omer Gavriel Marmari, was initially also charged with having overstayed his visa, because he had not left the country by Sept. 19. Since he was in custody when that deadline came, Mr. Gordon said, that charge was dropped, and Mr. Marmari conceded instead that he had failed to notify the government of a change in status.
The five are awaiting deportation back to Israel. Eagerly, friends say.

unclesmrgol:
As I suspected, the problem is with you and not the New York Times.
I did a search for "urban moving" for the month of October, 2001 and found the article immediately. It's $4.95 to read the whole thing. As I said, it's only $3.00 at Lexis Nexis. Here is the link to the NYT abstract (add the normal http colon backslash thing - when I put the whole link in my post it gets caught waiting for the Captain's approval):

select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00B14FE3B580C7B8CDDA90994D9404482

Did you know that there is a lot of information that cannot be found on Google?

Jim, I see that you have been giving me your attention. I do find that an attractive quality in a man... :-)

Actually I don't suspect these dark-haired lads are already at Gitmo. Our law enforcement does not strike me as being that efficient.

My point was that if they come forward in an attempt to "clear their names" they might well FIND themselves heading off to Gitmo for years with no access to representation, and no actual charges against them except for "taking pictures on a ferry" and "looking suspicious."

Such is our shining new America.

filistro:
"no actual charges against them except for..."

They also found that bong on the ferry a couple of days ago (made out of duct tape - they had to call in the bomb squad and delay the ferry an hour). Maybe they'll pin that on them as well.
Damn Muslim pothead terrorists.

Also, thanks so much to Jim for giving me this line... Nah....gotta be that they've been nabbed, and Dick Cheney is personally overseeing their waterboarding...

Because it affords me the opportunity to quote this line from Jon Stewart the other night:

"Every time Dick Cheney smiles, somewhere in heaven an angel gets waterboarded."

LOL

My first point is that I realize that everybody is passionate about their views but civility seems to have gone completely out the window. How do we do this without getting so personally attacking and just getting everybody's dander up and sensibilities closed?

As for me, I know nothing about the stories of Israelis and the schemes described. I don't know if they are "true or truther". In this instance, it is just another story. This seems like the real issue to me, dave and filistro : why deflect the story/comments with a "yea but you should see what these other guys did" type of argument? Even if it is true, does that really make any difference to this story. Does this series of events not seem suspicious to you, or is everybody lying? Peoples lives are pretty much toast when its planes or ships going down, so stuff like this and "flying imams" need to be taken seriously, even if it turns out to be nothing. As Insufficently Sensitive rightly pointed out, they were not identified as Arabs, muslim or anything. They were suspicious because of their actions. Can you not see that? That's what this is all about.

Jenny, I've been on the Washington State Ferries many times. I'm sure that the commenter you are criticizing meant to say compartments and passageways below the vehicle deck, not cargo hold. In any event, the point was that a few bombs placed at key points below the waterline would sink a ferry.

Unclesmrgol, that newspaper writer you were mentioning, Michelle Mowad, moved on to a Philadelphia newspaper and then moved on to the San Diego Business Journal, at which she can now be contacted. So, if anyone wanted to question her about the article mentioned, and about what she learned subsequently, it is possible. Of course, our buddy little david would say that that writer is an FBI/CIA/DIA/Mossad/Shin Bet/Bilderberger/Masonic/space alien plant put in place when the real Michelle Mowad was taken away by black helicopters to the ultra-secret rendition site under Fineman's Kosher Deli.

rodt:
“Even if it is true, does that really make any difference to this story. ..As Insufficently Sensitive rightly pointed out, they were not identified as Arabs, muslim or anything.”

My story is directly related to this story, because I am trying to point out bias. If you don’t think this story exists solely because these two look Middle Eastern, then you are completely incapable of seeing you own racism (I am not calling you racist to insult you. All people, including myself, are racist to some extent. Some people learn to see things like this in themselves, some don’t).

I brought up my story to illustrate this issue. Let’s flip these two stories. What if it was Iranian men that were celebrating while watching the towers burn. What if they worked for an Iranian owned company. What if they were later caught in their van on a bridge with what the police said was tons of explosives. What if the FBI identified some of these men as Iranian revolutionary guards. What if the FBI was in the middle of breaking up an Iranian spy ring, and had arrested 60 Iranian spies already. What if after all this happened, the Iranian owner closed his company and went back to Iran. How suspicious do you think this would all look? Do you think you would have heard about this story? Do you think the Captain would have wrote a thread about it?

If we flip it the other way, we have two Israelis on a ferry who take a photo of a doorway (that was the only specific info I found about the photos), took multiple ferry rides, were in a “restricted” area (the initial stories simply said they were in an area “where people normally do not go". This has morphed in more recent stories as “restricted area”), and were pacing. Do you think this story would be just as big? Do you think the ferry employee would have even taken pictures of these two? Would it still be a thread on this site?

If you can honestly say that, even after flipping the stories, that the Israeli ferry riders would have been a much larger story and much more suspicious than the celebrating Iranian revolutionary guard with explosives story, then you are not racist or biased.

So what do you say? If you say that the Israeli ferry guys would still be much more suspicious than the Iranians, I believe that you are either lying to me or to yourself.

“Does this series of events not seem suspicious to you, or is everybody lying?... They were suspicious because of their actions. Can you not see that?”

I have not read very many specifics other than these men were pacing, taking a picture of a doorway, were in an area where most people don’t go, looked at an evacuation poster, and asked questions. I think pacing is normal when you have nothing else to do on a ferry ride. If they really took a picture of an empty doorway, I don’t think it is suspicious, I think it is weird. I don’t know how a picture of a doorway helps to blow up a boat. When I am in a situation such as waiting on a ferry, I don’t sit and look at the wall, I roam all over the place, and go where I am not supposed to. When I am in hotels (or boats), I always go into empty conference rooms, etc. I always check doors to see if they're locked and, if they’re open, I check it out. Sometimes people find me and tell me to leave. If I was Muslim, I would be in Gitmo. I also look at evacuation posters, when I am waiting for an elevator, for example. I could also see myself doing this on a long ferry ride. I also like to talk to people. I own a boat, and I do ask weird boat related questions when there is an opportunity to do so.

No, I don’t think this story means anything. If these guys were terrorists, wouldn’t they be trying a little harder to not be suspicious? If I was planning to blow something up, I would definitely not do a lot of things that I normally do now.

rodt:
And another thing. Whatever small amount of reasonable suspicion there might be should be handled in a more normal way. Instead of this ferry employee taking a pic with his cell phone, giving it to the FBI, and putting it in the newspaper, what if he told the captain and he simply asked the guys a few questions in person? Is that so hard? People seem to think its no big deal to ruin peoples lives at a drop of a hat. Try and think of some strange things that you have done in your life. (Asking a strange question, taking a strange picture, pacing, etc). Things that might look suspicious to paranoid, hysterical, post 9/11 Americans. Imagine, then, that you were a Middle Eastern Muslim and someone saw you doing this act. Would you agree that putting you picture in the paper, being jailed (such as the two Muslims recently caught with fireworks), and possibly losing your job as a result would be a reasonable action? How would you feel in that situation?

dave, First of all, I don't think that these are big stories, if that is defined by being in mainstream media. I think if these guys were/are Israeli, they would be reported as behaving suspiciously. I cannot tell what country, nationality or religion these guys are from seeing them. These guys look Middle Eastern to me, Arabic possibly but I would not be surprised if it turned out that they were Israeli. When these guys were reported, did anyone know that they were muslim, Arabic or Israeli. Who knows what they are even now?

dave, I am neither racist nor naiive. I understand that people are afraid and frankly, so many acts of violence are carried out by radical Islamic jihadists. Does this cause awareness to be raised? Yes and understandably, but this also does not give carte blanche to accuse anyone "muslim looking" of being criminal or terrorist just because they of how they look. But these guys were not picked out because they are Middle Eastern only, they were acting suspiciously. The questions that they asked seemed suspicious to the employees of the ferries. They were pacing, looking like they were measuring. I wouldn't do that given today's world. When I am on a ferry, I hang out in the lounge area and go out on the deck and enjoy sea air. I do not go into restricted (whether it morphed into it or is real) areas or the bowels of the boat,and I definitely don't pace off distances. I also don't want people's lives to be ruined at a drop of a hat. Or from a sunken ferry, (not ruined but taken). There's the rub.

It seems to me that there is never clear right or wrong in these situations because none of us really know all of the facts. You could possibly be right about these guys, I will admit that, even though I don't think so. Will you admit that I and others posting here may be? That possibly these employees were legitimately concerned that these guys were dangerous, wherever they are from. And that the Captain (not Ed) told them if they are concerned, contact the FBI. And that being vigilant may save lives. Judgement calls need to be made, the right one was made in this case I believe.

Last thing. If I am on a plane (which I tend to be mostly) or a ship and I see someone doing something that I consider really weird or threatening, I don't care what they look like or where they may be from, or who they worship. I'm going to say something to someone in authority. I am no racist, I just prefer to stay alive along with my fellow travellers. Terrorism or crazy makes no difference at 20,000 feet, above or below sea level.

Is this 'dave' guy a pal of Rita Zawaideh? Why else would he print such square miles of textual filibusters?

It seems an effective technique for confusing and suppressing rational discussion of a situation that could be important to Puget Sound ferry passengers.

i think he was beat up by a jewish kid when he was wee little guy and now we all have to pay for it.

well here is one last statement that should clear up a lot

hay little dave do you know what the word WAR means we are at war with radical Muslims they were doing something weired I would hope to god some one would speak up.

Posted by dave | August 29, 2007 3:05 PM

Swabjockey:
"I'd have to send the "black bag" man to your hideout."

Please, come get me.

Not yet, shyster. "We" don't have a GEOLOC on you...yet. Pls keep posting though we'll eventually get it. Remember, I'm dealing with incompetents.

Shipmates,

Notice how the shyster really doesn’t believe the “troofer” BS? If he really believed the evil gov was so “omnipotent” …he wouldn’t be giving up all this good intel. The shyster knows that his postings are not as “anonymous” as most people think.

Then again, in the “ORM” world, the shyster isn’t much more than a gadfly. If he was a “real threat”, me and my boys could find his hidey-hole in a New York minute…what’s that come to nowadays…about 25 seconds?

Fil said: "Jim, I see that you have been giving me your attention. I do find that an attractive quality in a man... :-)"

Fil - the reason that story about your funnel cake box and the County Fair (or whatever - I forget the exact details) stuck with me is because up until that post of yours, I had always simply assumed (for whatever reason) that you were a male - but perhaps a somewhat overly sensitive girly-boy sort of metro male - So your revealing of your gender in that post cleared up a lot. LOL :).

Now we just have to get you to stop pretending that you are a "disillusioned conservative" or something along those lines as I believe I recall you stating at one point. Hogwash. You're a progressive lib, through to your core - so come on, just come right out and admit it. As they say, that's the first step towards recovery. LOL :).

Rodt:
"Will you admit that I and others posting here may be [right]?"

Yes. It is certainly possible that these guys were planning to blow up a ferry. It is also possible that the guy standing outside my window right now (who actually looks Middle Eastern as well), is also planning to blow up something. I do not think it would be right, however, to take a picture of him and have it posted all over the media. It depends on what kind of society you want to live in. We can give the police and FBI the power to break in peoples houses at random and search for any criminal activity. That would certainly lead to many captured criminals,and maybe "terrorists" as well. But maybe you think that is going too far. Well, I think it is going too far to paste someone's picture all over the media because of what was reported about these guys. What these guys did, if correctly reported, deserves a few questions by a ferry employee. That's what is so amazing about this story to me. Supposedly these guys were on multiple ferries doing "suspicious" things. So a ferry employee sees them. Why not ask them what they are doing? What is the problem with that? If they are afraid that they have a belt bomb on(which would be a typical thought for an American), then why not call the police and have them meet you when you dock the boat? These guys were on a boat in the middle of the water, and had no place to run to. Why in the hell couldn't they just call the police? Why was the best course of action to take their picture, allow them to walk away once the boat was docked, and then print their pictures in the newspaper? I would love for someone to answer that for me.

The two suspicious men on the Washington ferry should be checked into. It is not a racial or religious affiliation problem, but a problem when anyone starts measuring areas of a ship or plane along with taking pictures and going into areas that they should not have been in. I don't care if you're white, black, hispanic, asian, christian, muslim, whatever.........you are wrong in your actions and should be suspect. In this day and age, we cannot be too careful. These ferries carry A LOT of people (I'm sure of all nationalities and religions) every day. I am not a prejudiced person, but a security oriented person. I would never do the things these men were doing and neither should anyone else. We need to find them and check them out to see what they were doing. After a terrorists act it too late! Americans need to wake up and protect themselves - this may not be the politically correct way of speaking, but it is true. We can protect every other nation, why not our own? It's time for Americans to get tough and stand up for ourselves when it comes to our safety and security. If you have nothing to hide, then it shouldn't be a problem.