Captain's Quarters -

g'mornin' cap'n!

everybody must remember that this little victory would not be possible without Bush's leadership and the war in Iraq.

It was BUSH who got Syria out of Lebanon.

now we should encourage the Lebanese to rid themselves of Iran's/Syria's jihado-stooges: Hizballah.

Joint air-strikes ruthlessly carried out until Nasrallah is dead and all their assets reduced to ashes would be a BEGINNING.

Re: leaders like Abssi, and Nasrallah

One of the oddest things about groups like al-Qaeda and Hezbollah and Hamas is that any time they flee from a battle--usually just by the skin of their teeth--it's a "great victory" for THEM. If they die, they're "great martyrs," and if escape death with the clothes on their back, running for the hills, they're "the victors." I don't know if they actually believe it, or it's just good propaganda, that somehow works in an Islamic context, but's it's right out of the twilight zone. Heads they win, Tails we lose.

...just like the Left will declare victory if they can get the US to pull out ahead of Bush's timetable.

Actually, I don't think its very odd that FI didn't win lot of hearts and minds in the refugee camp. For the most part, Hezbollah is the party of choice and they are Shi'ite. That's because a majority of Palestinian Muslims are Shi'ite in these camps. Those that aren't see themselves as "Palestinian" first and consider their struggle a nationalist struggle. Or, have already migrated to other nations.

When FI tried to make inroads into Gaza during the height of the Iraq massacres of innocents by AQ in Iraq, there were signs that they were being rejected. Zarqawi and Zawahiri had over played their hand when they called the Shi'ite in Iraq traitors and put them up for slaughter. That went all over the ME, not to mention the nightly pictures of the blood bath.

The media might find it convenient to focus on ME people who "hate America", but they don't much like AQ either in certain parts.

Back in late 2005 early 2004 I believe, Zawahiri had directed Zarqawi to expand into the "Levant" which includes Lebanon, part of Syria, Israel, the West bank, Gaza and the Sinai. They really have to find a certain niche of the really disaffected. Not just with the over all state of affairs, but who are disaffected with the parties who are already in place. Those groups have some pretty extensive spy and support networks in place. Not to mention, they don't much appreciate some outside force trying to take over their fight, their power or their source of income.

Frankly, I think that is why FI in Lebanon got ratted out so quickly. A Hezbollah spokesman actually stated at one point that FI was trying to "radicalize" the young and convince them to do suicide attacks, etc. Now, that is pretty funny, all things considered, but we are talking about an outside force horning in on Hezbollah's territory. So, yeah, they gave them up to the Lebanese army. Not because they couldn't kill them themselves, but it makes it much more politically pretty if the state comes in and removes them. Who can FI/AQ blame if they are put out by the state? Not to mention, if innocent people are killed, it won't be Hezbollah who does it and it won't damage their standing.

I'd also like to mention that, in Iraq, this is why AQ is being driven out of Anbar and various places. Besides being bloody monsters, they tried to take over the smuggling routes into Iraq from Syria and cut out the middle man. When their resources were getting cut off by US efforts and they needed to conserve them, they decided "Why pay the middle man". Well, that meant that the Shieks who had given them shelter not only didn't have any government assistance (because nobody was giving a rebel a dime, food wasn't coming in and their was little reconstruction going on) nor did they have revenue from their black market smuggling of men, money and materials. Or, at least, it was being severely cut into.

That also meant that they couldn't provide for their tribes. That means that a shiek is not long for power. So, they began to make deals thinking they could play both ends of the fight, the way that they have survived for centuries over multiple dynasties, empires and governments. That's when AQ made their second giant mistake and started killing them.

Hezbollah was just quick to recognize that activity in their own back yard. It's one of the few things we can thank them for.

Relaipundit,

I'm not sure Syria is completely out of Lebanon. They're closely tied to Iran, both of which are the home office for Hezbollah.

Hezbollah is also closely tied to the Lebanese government, and they are going to need more than encouragement to get rid of Hezbollah. Syria has shown itself more than willing to do an occasional Corleone style hit.

It's too bad Bush's plan didn't work, Iraq wasn't supposed to last this long, he would then move to Syria (my opinion, don't ask me to back it up with fact, just seems like good chess strategy) which would have put more than a little pressure where it really needed to be put, on Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Too bad the State Department, the CIA, the media and Congress couldn't see it. And too bad they actively undermined this policy. But I see problems with the way the administration approached what would have been a very good plan. They tried to fight a war and make friends with the enemy at the same time, and Bush's weakness as a communicator also caused more than a few problems.

Nevertheless, I think history will view him as one of the good guys. Assuming we're not living in the Caliphate. Then history will view him as does the media.

Coffee and irony on a Sunday.

A dead 'Tango' is a victory for the west wherever he is killed. One less that will end up in a western country.

Now if we can keep countries like South Korea and Italy from sending human fodder to the kidnapping camps of radical Islam, then paying for their release, we will hinder the flow of money that subsidizes terror.

But did the BBC weep? It isn't a victory for the West if a BBC correspondent didn't weep for the fleeing butchers...

The Lebanese threw rice at their soldiers in celebration? Is that usual? I suppose it's better than shooting their Kalishnakov's off into the air.

Learning to fight in new ways.

I think this lesson came down the pike, when, in top prize fighter matches, the champ took one swing at his opponent; and the guy went down for the count.

THen?

You'd be surprised. But the ticket sellers got swamped by the angry crowds! You don't pay good money to go see "shorts" at the movies. And, a champ should stay in the ring "and dance a few rounds."

Now, the Mideast.

Israel learned the hard way that the 6 Day War victory was more grief than it was worth. And, all the land deals, afterwards, were STUPID, too.

I think the Lebanese, being arabs, have figured it out, all right.

First?

Well, by taking their time: ALL SUMMER. The press went home. You saw pictures from this particular camp as things deteriorated? No. You did not!

What do you have now? "Throwing rice?" What a delightful outcome, sans the usual brutish pictures you'd really get if you saw what the arabs do to each other.

Arik Sharon got blamed for the last time the Lebanese went after each other in two of these UN refugee camps.

I'll even take this further.

The UN honchos will grow rich on the funds to rebuild this stink-hole. But it will never, house again, at the beachfront, 60,000 of these so-called Palestinians. Nope. I just don't think so.

That there may be photo ops ahead?

OF COURSE, THERE WILL BE PHOTO OPS AHEAD! The UN and the MSM thrive on this bullshit.

But kudo's to the Lebanese Army. They not only took their time, all summer; they got to rotate every single recruit through this "firing range." Worth its weight in gold, in terms of training.

And, you'll also notice it must have been very bad, because Nasrallah-la-la did not get an opportunity to throw gas on the fire.

Ah. And, the Green Helmet Man? Did you notice? No appearances from him. What? They weren't collecting the dead bodies? If not, that place now smells to the high heavens. Enough, perhaps, to keep the UN and the media away? Well, until the air clears.

People complain at how long it is taking to destroy al-Qaeda and other terrorists but this is just an indication as to how much warfare has changed over the centuries. It would be easy to destroy al-Qaeda if we (or Lebanon for that matter) destroyed entire cities and killed their most of their inhabitants (like how warfare was conducted in the the past), but war is no longer fought that way. The idea now is not to kill everyone just to insure you get a few combatants, it's to prevent civilian deaths as much as possible and this is always going to make combat tougher and victory more difficult to achieve. al-Qaeda and it's affiliates know this, which is why they hide in civilian populations. It's not going to stop their eventual demise, but it will take a lot longer for us to archive victory.

al-Qaeda is using 11 century tactics in 21 century warfare and that's bound to fail. Yes, it worked for awhile, but the 21 century is rapidly catching up to them and they are loosing more and more every day. That's why they attack the civilian populations, it's a means to force the other side to slow down and/or abandon their attacks and in this respect is nothing more than a holding action. One that is going to fail as long as we and the rest of the world keeps the pressure on them. The only way al-Qaeda can win now is if we withdraw from the area completely. That's what they are hoping for and it's their only means of achieving victory. Let's not give them that.

NAFTALI:

i wrote:

"Joint air-strikes"

not just encouragement.

Aren't there elections coming soon to Lebanon?

Didn't I read up at DEBKA that the USA is sending in another off-shore floating aircraft carrier? With marines on board. Who can do beach landings.

It seems that what's ahead is a race, still, between the thugs of one side, against the thugs on the other. With Syria being told in this "off-handed" way to stay out of Lebanese politics.

And, what about Nasrallah? His street thugs could try and upset the upcoming election. But what if "we are there" with a powerful military force, showing?

And, the Lebanese Army, (a force divided between sects), is coming off a WIN, here.

Seems like good news.

Reliapundit,

Right, missed that one. Joint with who and who? Lebanon and the US? Nice thought, but the reality is that the US isn't going to do much (we can hope for some type of action regarding Iran--given Iran's momentum)until Iraq settles down. US and Israel, nope. Remember Hezbollah isn't just sitting around in camps like the Palestinians. They are completely interwoven into that society. There aren't many folks I've heard, outside of the Defense Department, who acknowledge that we are fighting a very intelligent enemy.

Bush didn't do shit.

the Lebanese got Syria out of Lebanon - and are still working on it.

Bush my arse. That nincompoop didn't do a thing for Lebanon.

I commend the Lebanese Army for this victory and a well won with minimal civilian deaths.

Give credit where credit is due - and that ain't Bush.

its the Lebanese.

gaffo,

It is amazing to peer into the diseased brain of one fully afflicted with Bush Derangement Syndrome. can't you even recognize that you were infected with the disease from the machinations of the ambulance chasing Tort lawyers in 2000? David Boies was the Typhoid Mary, as he practiced the well known techniques of setting everyone against every other, in behalf of his greedy client who really thought he could sue his way into the presidency.

Me? I think George Bush 43, is crazy like a FOX.

Like many a successful President before him, this Bush doesn't mind being underestimated by his opponents. Like them he is willing to hold his own counsel and persevere. the bullfighter enrages the Bull to chase the capeand not himself.

It worked for Washington, Lincoln, Truman and Reagan. Their opponents didn't believe they could walk and chew gum at the same time. They constantly underrestimated them. George III coulds not beleive Washingtomn would refuse the kingship. But George did.

Many laughed at him but the "baboon" held the country together despite the Copperheads, counseling surrender.

Harry set us on a course to eventually destroy the monstrous Marxist abomination, with out fighting WW III, even if their were some hot episodes. Yet they all saw the victory of their chosen courses of action, even if Truman had to wait a little while.

Like Truman, Bush has set the terms for a cold war battle that will take some time but a lot less time and treasure than the one facing Truman. Containment and letting the idiots kill themselves off worked for Truman and his successors with Reagan administering the final coup de grace, some 45 year later. As Reagan said "My view is... We win. You lose".

Bush has had his enemy chosen for him.
These religionist dead enders have no where near the resources, that the Marxists did, but do have just as much twisted religious fervor to draw on as has any of your fevered Marxist mass murderers. Bush has already achieved much blodlessly on the Algerians and Libyan fronts, without firing a single shot. Iraq and Afganistan have been somewhat bloody but nowhere up to yesteryear's standards. In another year we will surpass the numbers of US personnel killed before Bush enagaged in this Al Queda cold war.

Despite your grief, he does seem to be winning there. The Sunni Iraqis are immunizing themselves against the AlQueda virus. The low level Baathists are being re-conciled and granted pardons. Hence they are laying down thier arms.
The Kurds finally have their nation State, under major power protection; as long as they remain in loose confederation within Iraq. The Shia, new to power are still hesitant to embrace their non-Arab Persian "friends". A millenia of hatred and distrust for the Farsi-speaking Persians immunizes them from the blandishments.

Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Kim Il Sung, Castro, Pol Pot, Bin Laden, Zawahiri and Zarquawi are genocidal killers and I'm sure qualify for your twisted Pantheon of Heroes.

Suffering as you do with uncureable BDS, I am soliticous for your health, and do hope it is terminal.

(the disease, that is.)

Naftali,

You can go to DEBKA, and see it there. The US has put another carrier; with marines on board, trained to do beach landings. Just in case, when the September Lebanese elections roll around; syria and/or nasrallah, think they'll try some "tricks."

You said Bush wouldn't intervene? What are you, a clairvoyant? If we've got BEACH LANDING MARINES close to the Lebanese shore; and IF the thugs in the streets try to intimidate citizens going to vote ...

Ya know what?

Our military already has plans to handle the disturbances.

And, yes. The Lebanese Army wrapped up reducing the palestinian "refugee camp" to ruble and rocks. Ain't nobody gonna come back there, again. For a good little while.

Will the Lebanese need help?

Seems nasrallah's been something of a shadow. Not doing his usual street stunts;

And, the "mess" that was supposed to be the Lebanese Army, just won their country back from the terrorists.

There's also the political maneuvering. Where Maliki went to Damascus; and showed Assad that there's a place at the table for Syria; with the pipeline that's being planned out of Irak. Not only screws Iran; but puts oil money in syrian hands. As Syria becomes a way-station for the processing of the oil, before it is pumped to the ships, waiting at sea. At Tripoli. NOT the Straits of Hormuz.

Bush has seen to it that the diplomatic stage isn't just set with prancers from the UN. The French, too, are on board.

Oh, heck. And, for good measure north korea has offered to stop its nuke program.

Seems like Bush has done enough right stuff; to get the ball moving in our direction. Something the left may be too late to cancel out? Remember, we're not in Saigon.

And, all those promiscuous people who found love in all the wrong places during the 70's? How many of them died of AIDS in the 80's? That one took the sex-happy freaks by surprise. (Where syphlis & gonnoreah got cured with penicillin, they forgot to look out for the next scourge.)

Maybe, in our time we'll get to see limosine liberals bumping into each other; like idiots driving clown cars? (You thought pelosi had driving skills? The first thing she did with her brand new seat was to plow out of the showroom window; forgetting to check first to see if there was an "exit sign" overhead.) Not that I care.

I think Bush knows when he's on a roll.

And, I suspect he knows that not only do the troops have affirmative American support (around 70%). He smelled the problems that erupted with the failed immigration bill.

He also knew Larry Craig had to go.

Vittner, won't, by the way; even though the Bonkeys are applying pressure. Because? Louisiana has Blanco, the Bonkey governor. And, she'd probably select herself as the senator to replace Vittner.

Politics always applies.

Even when scoundrels go down; they go down and out, the way you cut out cancer. Not healthy tissue.

And, the republicans can't afford to lose a seat to the "majority," who have only "one seat, putting them ahead." And, that belongs to Johnson. Out with a stroke.

Politics sure gets funny when the margins are close. Don't be surprised. Dirty fighting isn't unusual, if you can grab your opponent by his testicles. And, then get away with it.

I expect to see a lot worse, ahead. But ya know what? Once Bush wasn't bullet proof. Now? Oddly enough I think people's trust in him is growing stronger; while it wanes for congress.

Hope republican congress critters figure out that "playing the dandy" doesn't pay.