Captain's Quarters -

She goes to Barnard College, not Columbia. If she doesn't even know what school she attends, why the surprise that she doesn't know the Naval Academy is part of the Navy?

Fortunately her name is easy to remember when she starts writing for the MSM next year.

The whole operating theory of the left is that individuals (especially individuals who aren't leftists) just are not smart enough, or mature enough to run their own lives.

That's why we need govt to make all of our decisions for us.

It is a silly story written by a kid. She is at Barnard studying PoliSci and the whole thing is clearly labeled an opinion piece. Nowhere does it say she is studying journalism.

Surely there are more important issues to talk about in the world than one misguided 18 year old.

THE GOOD NEWS: "Baby" brother cut his own umbilical cord. At just the right age. And, ahead? He will be trained to hold his beer, all right. And, to check his anger at the door. He'll learn all there is to know about "being polite to women." Heck, even whores. Because that's how good the training can be. And, ahead? A whole new life. In a whole new world. Full of MEN. Not cry-baby women at home. One on the rag. And, one going through her "changes."

Good grief.

It really is.

Ace of Spades and Worldwide Standard both scoff at the notion that any adult could possibly be surprised that a military university teaches a military curriculum. They explicitly train men and women to defend their country, and openly express that defending one's country is a noble and honorable thing to do. This has Idris and her mother aghast that such a place could be allowed to influence young minds.

Of course, the fact that almost all other universities in this country are "allowed to influence young minds" by pushing Left-wing ideology instead of critical thinking and a diversity of ideological viewpoints never seems to leave these tender souls aghast.

Perhaps she thought her brother was going to the Navel Academy? Good lord, this country is just going down the tubes. 18 or not, I knew what the Naval Academy was back when I was 14. Another Jay Walkin' candidate for Jay Leno!

Teresa, let me help you out. There ain't no single course labeled "journalism." What schools do is what Hsu did for Hillary. BUNDLE.

In other words, you can avoid having to get credentialed in anything; like English Lit. Or some other topic. "Jouralism" means the credential comes at you as a piece of this. And a piece of that.

A grab bag of courses.

As to the lineage, here, a mom produced two bright kids. With different ideas about how to use their minds. The gal? Didn't choose well. And, the boy? BRILLIANTLY. And, he got away with it, too. Which means he knows how to "talk the talk" to people who should be smart; but are practically infantile.

The other thing? Annapolis isn't going to strap him with college tuition bills, like his sister carries. He'll be committed to making the education he's getting "pay off" in the service of America.
'
With changes ahead. Anyone, today, investing heavily in affirmative action, might as well open a store that sells buggy whips.

So, yeah. An interesting read.

And, another way to see how "journalism" isn't always journalism. Sometimes, it's a tennis match. A weak handed serve, ends up on the Internet court. And, BINGO. They served it; and we won the point.

Journalism majors also have poor math skills. LOVE. Expect this to be more true, most of the time, than less so ... Or the left would have already learned ...

Don't know whether or not to engage in gut-busting laughter at this one or not. I'd especially like to see the Annapolis course that teaches Middies "how to lead troops in combat," according to Leppla's article in the Spectator.

The idea of Mommy calling the Navy to get her son out of a cherished and hard to obtain billet at Annapolis because she did not understand that an entry-oath at Annapolis is the same as any other entry-oath in any of the military services is almost comical.

But understandable...

There are about 300,000,000 Americans according to the US Census Bureau's latest stats.

There are about 1.5 million Americans in uniform, active and reserve combined.

That means that about one-half of one percent of Americans are in uniform, if my math skills haven't failed me, carrying the water for the other 99.5 percent. MOST Americans, unless they have served, are serving or have a close family member who has or is serving, do not have a clue about the US military except from what they gather from the entertainment Media and MSM.

For ANY educated American to think that because the academic standards at Annapolis are as high as elite Ivy League schools, thus Annapolis is just like Dartmouth, or Brown, or Princeton, and, yes, Columbia, and not the premier Naval Academy in the world is beyond laughable.

What did they think "naval academy" meant? Permanent seats at the Orange Bowl?

If you want to know about what they teach at Columbia, you need only check out their course listings. The Fall 2006 list was particularly galling, as all the courses I checked out seemed focused on constructing narratives. One course description promised to teach students how to report on the economy without the use of cliches, even while the description itself was bursting with them.

"as a kid who did not want to sit around and drink beer during college... and have a purpose..."

Hmmm... Maybe that his comment on what he saw as the sum total of his sister's so-called education.

Boy, you bloggers will stop at nothing to bash traditional journalism. Jumping on a student? I'm glad you guys are having fun skewering this girl, but it's kind of pathetic.

What's more pathetic is believing that one story by one student reflects the state of J-school as a whole.

I know you're biased against traditional media, but this little blogosphere episode is... really, the only word I can think of is pathetic.

To second Teresa...

I missed this at first. She's not even a J-student.

Again, pathetic.

As to the reference that Leppla and her mother were not able to speak/pfevented from speaking to the Midshipman whenever they wished during his first summer [Plebe Summer] at Annapolis...consider that the first summer/Plebe Summer is a highly intense regimented period of time, just like Beast Barracks at West Point, similar to Marine Boot and Army Basic training rolled together only more intense. One cannot pick up a cell phone whenever they miss Mommy and call home, and Mommy cannot call her kid to the phone whenever she wants to talk to him. This has been the regimen on the Hudson and on the Severn for the last century. Not because "they" do not want the midshipman or cadet to be talked into desertion, as Leppla asserts, but because their focus is on learning ALL the basics prior to the start of the Academic year, learn those vital first important steps, ingrain them into their consciuousness, before the rigors of academics takes precedence in the Fall.

Sheesh, to think how many Americans will read this article and sympathize with the Mommy and sister and call for Congressional hearings, and possible impeachments, whatever it is they do when they are angry and haven't a clue, because the Leppla's were "duped" into letting their kid and sibling enter Annapolis?

He only has a few minutes to talk because he is going through Plebe Summer, which is the academy equivalent of basic training. They do not let anyone talk more than a few minutes a week and it has nothing to do with his particular predicament. If he wants to quit, all he has to do is raise his hand. To his credit, he has not done so even though he was raised in this same home as the nitwit author and by the same parent. Good for him!

Teresa, let me help you out. "Journalism" means the credential comes at you as a piece of this.

Carol, Let me help you out. There may not be any one course call "Journalism," but there is a major called "Journalism." And this girl is a poly-sci major, not a Journalism major.

I wonder how many moons circle the planet this girl lives on. I do not know any student that does not know that West Point, Annapolis, Air Force, Kings Point, the US Coast Guard Academy, the Citadel, VMI, Norwich Academy, are not Military Academies, with military discipline and traditions.

Secondly, we all knew what we signed up for. It was a military academy. One year of hazing: push-ups, hanging-fives, the bench, butts and muzzles, square meals, orderly duty and more.

Finally, as a graduate of the Coast Guard Academy I can attest to the fact that during Swab Summer we swabs were 1) too tired to call home and 2) too tough to complain to our parents/girl-friends that it was difficult. To be labeled a "pussy" for complaining about the training regime is not a goal anyone strove for. We did not want to wash out.

This kid may succeed in spite of his family. I hope his training officer is successful in keeping this kids family away from him.

Maybe Mommy thought that he was going to the "Navel" Academy to learn about bellybuttons.

ColdWarrior,

Looks like we are making the same points, with you providing more detail. Sorry for the duplication.

I will disagree with one thing; As a former army enlisted man, I would not categorize Beast Barracks as more intense than Infantry OSUT at Ft. Benning!

As someone who spent 15-years in journalism, I'm never surprised by any stupid idea held by a journalist. As a group, they are the most ignorant of college graduates.

Tom Shipley and Teresa,

I think you both miss the point: Idris Leppla may not be a journalism student, but the people who decided to publish her (ahem) article almost certainly are. We can presume, therefore, that they have aspirations to become full-fledged journalists. Once they have a sheepskin from Columbia, one of the more prestigious j-schools, there's a good chance that they WILL become professional (snort!) journalists. If they think that idiotic drivel like Leppla's heartbreaking story of her brother's suffering at the hands of the brutish Navy is worth column space... Sheesh!

As for Leppla and her mother: how stupid can they get??? Did they really have no idea what the Naval Academy would be like or what its purpose is? How humiliating for her brother. The guy is (we hope) making the tough transition from civilian to midshipman to United States Navy officer (a title proudly and honorably born in peace and war by generations of men and women since 1775); he doesn't need Mommy pestering the Navy to let her dear little baby boy go and he doesn't need his sister to be plastering the embarrassing details of his family's stupidity all over the news. I hope he's not as moronic as they are; the Navy doesn't need to be wasting time and money on a imbecilic pantywaist who somehow got into the Academy thinking that it was nothing more than a rather stodgy Ivy League university. I would also hope that the Navy would have a talk with whatever member of Congress got him his appointment and remind them that (a) he needs to be a bit more selective because (b) the service academies have a serious purpose beyond merely providing a good education in a quiet, alcohol-free environment.

On a related note, do the peacenik members of Congress still make appointments to the Academy? If so, why? Doesn't it bother their consciences that they are sending kids off to become murderers for Halliburton?

In a later post, which I read before this one, Ed laughs off being called a retard. I'm sorry to use the silly word, but there are clearly some retards at the Columbia Spectator and in Idris's brother's family.

The Opinionator, I was referring more to the mental intensity, vice the overall physical intensity. Take a kid right out of high school, good grades, perhaps a fairly good athlete, top of his game and center of attention, perhaps, and within minutes of saying goodbye to Mom and Dad dropping him off "at college" finds himself face to face with an upperclassman, eye ball to eye ball learning all about Jesus from a whole new perspective...and having a whole summer of this BEFORE the real hard work starts? Intense.

OSUT? [One Station Unit Training?] That after my time in uniform. I do not doubt the intensity of ANY initial military training that it is conducted properly. "More sweat in training, less blood in battle," isn't that what the old Russian dictum says?

I surely hope this kid has the stones to press on down there on the Severn. "Non sibi sed patriae!"

Judging from I see here I am not sure that the content of the story is actually true. Sounds like a fictional writing assignment to me. Come to think of it, don't most J-Schools double up as creative writing institutions as well? The MSM certainly does like to spin yarn and call it news now and then.

Journalism schools are the place where a student with no math beyond high school and rocks-for-jocks science prepares one for understanding the complexities of global warming.

The cited article is really satire.

Isn't it?

Read as satire, it is funny and pretty well written.

I suspect it was not intended as such, however.

BTW, I don't see anything in the article to suggest the author is planning a journalism career. Did I miss something?

Cap'n,

It ain't mock outrage. I don't know about you(well, actually now I do), but but I do give younger people a little slack... especially students.

Both of them have a lot of learning to do, and it doesn't appear it's happening at Columbia or Barnard.

What exactly does the editor have to learn? It seems this poly-sci student wanted to write an editorial about her brother's experience at the Naval Academy. And they agreed. I don't see any incorrect facts in the op-ed, and you don't know how this piece read prior to publication.

What exactly did the editor do wrong?

University is a time for learning. It's good to know the blogosphere is out there to pounce on students (this IS a student publication) any time a they make a mistep.

Seriously, NOT mock outrade.

If he doesn't want to be in Annapolis and doesn't want it BAD, he won't be there for long. They never kept anyone there that didn't want to be there. There are a hundred thousand young men and women who would gladly take his place.

I'm more than sure the USNA provided the family with numerous brochures and seminars to present a vision of what the plebe year would be like.

The USNA does not want to trick anyone into thinking it's going like going to Columbia (or the Air Force Academy, for that matter). They have more than enough applicants each year and they do not wish to have people wash out the first week because they were unaware of what they were getting into.

Not to mention, for a j-student (or for any student, for that matter), a quick trip to the Academy website will give one a semblance of an idea what to expect:

http://www.usna.edu/plebesum.htm

So I don't really buy this chick's "opinion" column. The midshipman was informed and his mother was informed. The USNA has no real obligation to inform the nitwit daughter, who apparently does not know to operate the Internet.

FYI - for a great book about the USMA and the USNA, plebe summer AND football, read "Army-Navy: A Civil War" by John Feinstein.

To call these people stupid would be a affront to stupid people.

I suppose that Idris and her mom thought that the Naval Academy members sit about contemplating there navals[sic].

I hope this is not too off the point, but many of my friends from USNA (and the other academies) laughingly describe their experience as "a $350,000 education shoved up your *** one nickel at a time".

More seriously, I think that this is not an uncommon experience among academy families for moms and sis's to be "shocked" by the academy's curriculum and commitment, although being able to publish the gory details is rare. What would they be saying if it was a sister who joined the military?

Hurrah for her brother!

And no doubt, Tom Shipley, you'll next say that those "young" Clinton staffers who lapped up every one of Norman Hsu's dollars, not to mention those "free" hotel rooms in Vegas, should be viewed with great compassion for their missteps.

Limbaugh just said that Hillary Clinton micromanages her campaign. That means she supervises everything closely. The story put out by the N.Y. Times that "young staffers" with the Clinton campaign were responsible for the Hsu scandal is risible, but I suppose it's slightly more credible than saying that Hsu was insane.

Tom,
well what about the mother who was also surprised to learn that enrolling in a military academy meant joining the military?

Dave, that's hysterical! Even better, a guy gets to clean out the umbilical debris, instead.

Up ahead? Well, one of the things gained at Annapolis will be friends. Who have families. So if "junior" thinks his mom can wrap her candy around his "time off" from school; she might discover another step along the way of independence? A kid who has friends who take him home for the holidays.

And, then?

What if love comes along?

And, a new family forms;

You think these turdlings from rational thinking, do well? You think kids can't wait to grow up, and then continue this bilge with their own kids?

Something tells me a guy found a way OUT of his own choosing.

This is a key.

As to those here who see a difference between "jounalism courses" and poli science; just haven't been back to school in a long, long time.

Journalism courses, by definition, are a po-puri(le) of other departments. Making kids take a "little bit of this. And, a little bit of that." As their college debts mount. And, their opportunities after college get restricted.

The other thing I noticed? The "mother" in this story is a lone operator. Her son had no dad. About to be fixed NOW, though. And, good luck to him, too. He's got a whole broader outlook than ya can get just from some dames.

well what about the mother who was also surprised to learn that enrolling in a military academy meant joining the military?

You, I don't know. Make fun of this woman if you want. I know my mom had a hard time when I went off to school. I'm sure it's only tougher knowing it could also mean your son is very likely going off to war in 4 years. I'm not going to judge this person.

I mean, "yeah, I don't know."

Journalism courses, by definition, are a po-puri(le) of other departments. Making kids take a "little bit of this. And, a little bit of that."

Carol, you really don't know what you're talking about do you?

Journalism course have their own set of courses:

Article writing
New reporting
Media Law
Media Ethics (go head, have one with one guys!)
Investigative reporting
etc...

It's a major just like any other.

Sorry for the typos... i just type very fast when I get worked up.

Who cares if she's a j-student? She's an idiot, and idiots of all types should be called out and mocked.

"I'm sure it's only tougher knowing it could also mean your son is very likely going off to war in 4 years."

Well, not exactly 4 years.

Presuming the Ensign makes it through four years of schooling, he will be attending further schooling.

For example, ship drivers attend Surface Warfare Officers school, which takes six months.

If he wants to be a Marine, he'll go through Marine Corps Officer training. If he wants to be a pilot, he'll go through years of training.

But whatever he decides, he won't be going to war in four years.

Because by then, we all know Ms. Rodham will be elected President, peace and love will reign and I will be able to purchase shore front property in Annapolis for a song (being "What do you do with a drunken sailor?").

1. Poor little Idris -- not good enough to take her brother's place in mommy's eyes.

2. What kind of a mother delegates harassing the United States Navy to her teenaged daughter? Mom passed out on the floor and too tipsy to take on the task herself?

3. Where is the father in this dysfunctional family? I see two witches dancing around a cauldron at full moon, celebrating his demise.

All in all, no wonder the boy-child was so eager to flee. I wish him all the best, and while Annapolis would certainly not be my cup of tea, it has *got* to be better than the house full of twittering moonbats he has escaped from.

Who cares if she's a j-student? She's an idiot, and idiots of all types should be called out and mocked.

Well Rob, considering the header for this post is "The Truth About J-School" it matters plenty.

I guess that whole compassionate conservative thing is out the window, eh?

feh, this article reads like one of the plot points in that show, "Mothers and Sisters" or whatever it's called. Seems the one episode I've seen featured Sally Field begging her daughter Ally McBoy to ask the congressman she worked for to get her son out of the service, because he apparently couldn't make decisions on his own. Histrionics and piss-poor acting ensue.

Tom:

What is to get worked up about?

When a senior in college is as ill-informed as this young woman appears to be, and then advertises it in a prominent college newspaper, she puts herself in a position to be ridiculed.

Especially when her expressed reaction to the common-knowledge realities of her brother's experience at a highly competitive (and highly desired) military academy is hysterical and ridiculous.

As for the mom, if she is as described by her daughter, she is one sheltered woman it seems to me.

BTW:

Do you really think it is a serious article?

Teresa,

Why not talk about a misguided 18-year old? That 18-year old is an adult, and will shortly be seeking a position which will allow her to influence the more gullible among us. In fact, she is already trying with the content of her opinion piece.

I doubt she will be denied what she seeks, but the really cool thing about the Internet is that what you put into it becomes permanent.

We can watch the evolution (we hope) of Idris Leppla, but Idris has already left her indelible mark on the Net, and has ticked off several seconds of her 15 minutes of fame.

Her brother may suffer a bit more as a result of Idris' article, just as those serving in Iraq suffer a bit each time a Democratic lawmaker opens his/her mouth against the war. Idris may well learn from his letters what she has done to him.

A point Idris makes (and which the USNA site also makes) is that the Oath-taking is a required part of induction, and happens later in the day. (see here for an example of a non-Oath taker). The point here is that the middie has a chance to opt out after a very tough day.

Idris's right, though, about one thing. There's a lot of pressure to stay in, not the least of which is the fact that the inductee has had to secure a slot from a Senator or Congressperson, one of ten allowed per lawmaker (and one of two actual appointments to the Academy); obviously, there is a lot of competition for these slots, and the person who takes one and then gives it up has harmed his/her state's representation in the Academy and, by inference, another applicant who was not placed on his/her lawmaker's nomination list.

Idris Leppla is a 21 year old college senior. She's not a "kid". She is also a practicing Jew. What I find most interesting is that she is troubled by her brother joining the military during a war in which the enemy wholeheartedly supports those who want to slaughter "her" people. She should pray for the wisdom and courage that her brother possesses.

God bless Midn. Leppla. I hope he embraces his new “Navy” family!

Can't wait for part two!

She is also a practicing Jew.

???

Just imagine Tom, if she had written a column SUPPORTING her brother's decision to attend the Naval Academy. And added that she was proud of him.

Just think of the nasty, hated filled E-mails she would have received from the moon bat left.

And that's presuming her column would have been published at all, given that Barnard is a typically far-left bastion of close minded, anti-military reactionaries.

The softballs tossed her way from the right, would have turned to bean balls hurled by the kind, tolerant left.

As for Tom Shipley's complaint that I'm picking on a student

LOL.

Shipley is doing to the author the same thing the mother and daughter are doing to their boy... infantilizing them.

Well, at least the editor had the good grace to strike all the "like totallys" and "oh my gawds" that were no doubt in the first draft.

So now we move from criticizing an 18 year old kid to speculating where her father is? Some of you people are unbelievable. Does it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe the kid's father is DEAD. Criticize her for being naive all you want, but lay off speculating about things not in the actual article.

As far as stupid things that people say, I've seen all sorts of things that ADULTS write on this blog that they should be embarrased about, but conveniently never bother giving us their real names. How about comments about killing liberals and the rest? How ever stupid this girl is, at least she had the honesty to sign her OPINION piece.

Finally, as the wife of a college professor, I am a little tired of all the crap on right wing blogs about how "liberal professors" are indoctrinating students. Frankly, at the college my husband is at the winger professors are the only ones blathering on about politics in class. The rest are concentrating on teaching math and so forth.

IF colleges are so damn liberal, then how do you explain the fact that despite rising numbers of college grads that people like George Bush keep getting elected? If colleges are indoctrinating people they sure are lousy at it.

Barnard is the all felale college in Columbia University.

Just to be precise: Barnard College is one of the subsections of Columbia University. Lots of universities have this kind of designation (I'm a graduate of Livingston College of Rutgers University, for instance), so she is a Columbia student.

I agree with Tom Shipley to the extent that this isn't really a fair criticism of the journalism school (though there are lots of valid ones). The Columbia Spectator is the student newspaper of the University, and probably doesn't have any journalism school students on its staff, such newspapers being primarily for undergraduates. There may be journalism majors among its editors.

That having been said, Ms. Leppla really ought to have checked her facts before exposing her ignorance in public this way, and her editors shouldn't have let her embarrass herself this way ("uh, do you REALLY want to tell the whole University that you didn't know that going to the Naval Academy means that you are also signing up for a stint in the Navy? You did say you're a PoliSci major, right?). As for her mother, she's just pathetic, and I hope she's proud of her daughter for making her look like a fool, as well.

Tom, you claimed there were no factual errors in her opinion piece. Did you read any of the comments? Many many people commenting there were or are in the military and they expose dozens of errors in her viciously anti military tirade.

I agree with you, Teresa that speculating on her Dad is in poor form. But, I submit that she is not a poor 18 year old, but probably more like 20 or 21. Seniors are not supposed to be sophomoric.

I think NahnCee touched on the point I wanted to make. There's no father around and it looks like the two Leppla women are more aghast at all that maleness that the academy represents than anything else. I mean, they changed baby brother's hairstyle and didn't have the sensitivity afterwards to sit down with the boy and talk about how it made him feel? No wonder he's seeking "structure" and male authority figures, he's been smothered by these two for who knows how long. Best of luck to him.

I bet you $ to donuts that, the moment my sig.other (a Kings Point grad) reads this girl's sorry excuse for an article, he will have a good laugh and will utter a well-deserved "What a moron!"

Where did she think her brother was attending? Hogwarts U? (With apologies to Harry Potter fans.)

CI,

I did see those comments, but I also didn't see them citing any particular facts she got wrong. In my experience, when someone gets a fact wrong, they usually cite it and correct it. It seems to me that they are more referring to her opinions, ie... the Naval Academy misled her brother.

Not only is Idris treating her brother like an infant, she is a sorry excuse for a journalist- if her story is being at all accurately reported. From the exerpt given by the Captain:

1) You don't take the Oath of Office after being yelled at all day. To the contrary, the yelling begins only after the Oath of Office. The reason is simple- you are not in military service until you do, and legally, the upper class have no right to yell at you, any more than at any civilian.

2) Midshipmen bilging out (dropping out) do NOT need to go through 13 exit interviews, much less with the "Head of the Navy". There is, technically, no such position. The closest thing would be the Chief of Naval Operations- and trust me, he has more important things than to do exit interviews with departing midshipmen.

D F Eyres USNA '86

"Poor form"?

No one here has said anything disrespectful about the father.

NahnCee writes: "Where is the father in this dysfunctional family? I see two witches dancing around a cauldron at full moon, celebrating his demise."

Guess that comes from the Ann Coulter playbook of saying that the 9/11 widows were enjoying their husband's death.

And the most fundamental error in her piece! She mentioned he would get to play the bugle in the band! Good God girl Fact Check. You play the BUGLE in the USNA's world famous drum and bugle corps, not the marching band! As an old drum corps vet, we hate when they refer to us as bands! Sheeeesh!

Mistatements of fact in her article Tom? Maybe not.

But whether the Naval Academy misled her brother would be what the legal profession calls a mixed question of law and fact; not an opinion.

And her evidence does not appear to advance in any material way her thesis that the Navy misleads its candidates for Annapolis.

On the other hand, anyone who is seriously seeking an appointment to any of our military academies would probably not be impressed by her sob story.

"It seems to me that they are more referring to her opinions, ie... the Naval Academy misled her brother."

Misled = "lied".

So if our little hero here is saying that her brother was lied to, he was lied to by Naval Officers?

Did Hillary Clinton ghostwrite this article? Good to see she can actually write something for herself, but what is it about Hillary labeling military officers as liars?

Once again - her brother was not "misled". You don't have to trick people into a $250,000 education. The Naval Academy has more than enough applicants.

That this woman has the audacity to claim her brother was lied to, opens her up to severe criticism. The left labels anyone with whom they disagree with as "liars", then shrieks like little girls when they are criticized for it.

Now, in the old days, Navy recruiting consisted of getting the recruiter getting a man good and drunk, and when the man woke up, he was on a ship sailing away from shore for a two-year cruise, but we're far beyond those days now.

Her brother is a legal adult and should consider himself fortunate to be gaining distance from such a smothering, dysfunctional disrespectful family.

more sorriness from Idris:
"... let it be known: the U.S. Naval Academy is not an elite college; it is first and foremost a branch of the U.S. military..."

USNA is an elite college. A few years back, it was ranked in the top 25 colleges and universities in the country.

D F Eyres

"That having been said, Ms. Leppla really ought to have checked her facts before exposing her ignorance in public this way, and her editors shouldn't have let her embarrass herself this way ..."

This is the crux of the matter: lack of basic research. Which BTW, is an ability sorely lacking in modern journalism and a host of other fields.

This is what happens when they ban military recuiters and ROTC on campus.

ColdWarrior 415 said:

" MOST Americans, unless they have served, are serving or have a close family member who has or is serving, do not have a clue about the US military except from what they gather from the entertainment Media and MSM."

As I recall, service families who are stationed with the service member are also "under the command" of whoever is in charge of that particular district, so they could be considered "military members" too, although not in the strictest sense of the term.

Teresa said:

"Guess that comes from the Ann Coulter playbook of saying that the 9/11 widows were enjoying their husband's death."

Yawn. Coulter said that about only three of the 9/11 widows, not all of them. Get your talking points correct!

Not a Yank: is the US Coast Guard Academy still tougher to get into than the other ones? It was when my Dad went there 57 years ago.

By the way, Columbia University's School of Journalism had a scandal earlier this year, when some grad students there apparently cheated on a take-home exam. The course? "Journalistic Ethics".

College students do not just sign up at the Naval Academy. This is a subject about which I have first hand knowledge.

To get into Annapolis, you must apply for admission, take the ACT or SAT, send in a high school transcript and obtain references. Secretary of the Navy and Presidential appointments are competitive but every member of Congress has one appointment each year. You must also take a physical at a military hospital and have 20/20 vision. If the applicant is younger than 18, he must have written parental consent. Many applicants also visit Annapolis between their junior and senior years.

It is impossible to believe that any 4th classman or any member of his immediate family was unaware that the United States Naval Academy was part of the armed forces. If they were, the first clue came on 27 June, when all his hair is cut off and all civilian clothes are locked up in storage and replaced with sailor uniforms.

That same day, the midshipmen form up in Tecumseh court, raise their right hands and swear to defend the United States Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I suspect that some J-School student is practicing the common journalistic art of reporting as fact a fiction you would like to believe. She and her mother should shut up and let the Midshipman cope with the upper classmen who just returned from their summer cruises. He's busy saying, "Aye aye, sir; I'll find out, sir; No excuse, sir." No time to talk to Mom and Sis.

Sounds to me like there's another Cindy Sheehan in the making.

"grad students there apparently cheated on a take-home exam. The course? "Journalistic Ethics"."

That's a pretty tough course. No textbooks exist.

Now reporting a story without a pre-determined, leftwing bias, without trying to "make a difference, without trying to become the next Woodward/Bernstein/Redford?

That will get you tossed out of J-school.

I'm surprised he didn't run away and join a circus years ago to get away from them. I really feel sorry for him, he will hear about his family's efforts, probably several times.

Most telling is that a no time did dear old mom and sis attempt to ascertain their boy's feelings before deciding to yank his ass out of what he worked hard to get into. Ostensibly, it was because he was too young and stupid (tho smart enough to make it into Annapolis) to make decisions for himself.

Where does one begin to comment on not only Ms. Leppala's article, but also on how Left and Right perceive institutions such as the military, but also basic values and, especially, each other. Ms. Leppala and her mother come across to me as perfect examples of Diane West's thesis refusing the refusal of many of us to grow up--the stubborn and narcissitic clinging to adolescence. In many ways, her piece reads like an adolescent's temper tantrum that her brother did something that she and her mother didn't like. Like spoiled children, she and her mother refuse to accept that he made an informed adult decision and to respect him as an adult.

Also, like many on the Left, she does not understand the role of the military in society. This I think is a commonality amongst the Left--and is also something of a desired ignorance on the part of leftist who neither seek nor desire to find out the facts--keeping to the adage of "I know what's right, so don't confuse me with the facts."

A commenter on another boardmade what I think is an interesting observation: that those on the Left view the Army and Marines as the military and see them as being basically cops, and, because, like police officers, they represent authority, there is a reflexive dislike towards them. While that probably does reflect the view of many on the Left, I'll be charitable and say that probably isn't a predominant view.

Another element coming into play is that Left and Right do, in many ways, ascribe to a different value system. Those of us on the right emphasize what can be called "hard values": honor, duty, patriotism, stoicism, etc.; while those on the left ascribe primarily to "soft values" such as empathy, showing emotions, etc. Now, don't get me wrong, conservatives do acknowledge the need and importance of "soft" values: it's just that we feel that our institutions such as school have done a poor job in inculcating the "hard" virtues--and, partly, it's our fault for letting this happen.

to conclude, I wish Ms. Leppala's brother success in his Naval career and applaud his admission into the most prestigious naval academy in the world, and hope that one day his sister and mother can also take pride in their son's service to them and their country.

If an adult in America can write a piece like Leppla's without understanding what the words "U.S. Naval Academy" mean, especially while less than two percent are engaged in a war, and write them with a straight face, she deserves to be picked on. This reminds me of my time in grad school and Air Force ROTC at a large university in western Pennsylvania when Operation DESERT SHIELD was in full swing. A tenured physics professor at the neighboring university wrote an opinion piece in his school's newspaper claiming that the university had a obligation to assist ROTC students get out of their contracts. He felt that cadets/midshipmen were getting involved with the military without understanding what we were getting into. A staffer at my ROTC det told me that this professor had been invited on numerous occasions over the years to attend our events and participate in scholarship boards and he never accepted. So, here we have still more examples of ignorance about what those in uniform do. And a lack of understanding that our young people really are making informed decisions. I applaud her brother for his decision to serve the country.

Tom:

Ms. Leppla is an adult, and therefore she cannot avail herself of the "I'm just a child" defense to criticism. Second, it matters not that she is simply a student, because student =! child. Third, her status as a student should not render her immune from criticism. Serious work is done at the university, whether scholarship, research, publishing or the like. I am amused that you think that such work should be adjudged more lightly because the authors and researchers are mere students. Fourth, she is not immune to criticism because she freely submitted her work for wide publication. On the internet. I can understand if this was some private scribbling on a private blog or a MySpace page, but this was published in a newspaper. Here's a lesson: Don't announce your stupidity to the world and then complain about the audience. Finally, her article has garnered criticism because it (1) expressed a juvenile opinion, (2) revealed the author's own foolishness and ignorance, (3) supposed that the reader shared in the author's own ignorance, (4) expressed dismay and even contempt for institutions upon discovering her own stupidity, (5) attempted to interfere in her adult brother's life, and publicly infantilized him, and (6) patronizingly presumed to pass along some greater lesson.

I was also rather put off by the first paragraph. She doesn't go to Columbia. She attends Barnard. Second, I went to a better liberal arts school than she, but I didn't attend to revel in the "ooh, you must be smart" bullshit. This lady's entire attitude is offensive to me.

My reference to the J-school at Columbia applied not just to Idris but also to the editor who approved this for publication. CE.

From The Truth About the Academies:
The author (sic) a Barnard College senior majoring in political science. [verb, (presumably "is," but tense may vary) absent in the original].

There's plenty to criticize about the author and the J-School (which, incidentally, is a graduate school, not likely to be attended by a Barnard senior)without continuing to intimate that she is an enrollee of the latter.

And because the article is so lame, criticism abounds at its Web site. From all appearances, this is no longer your grandfather's Morningside Heights of the 60s.

One last remark on the take-it-easy-she's just-a-student theme. When her brother attains her present age, he'll most likely be months away from Ensign John Leppla. Because, despite his mother's and sister's best Cindy Sheehan impression,

[He]ended up liking Annapolis and he has decided to stay.

Sounds to me like there's another Cindy Sheehan in the making.

That's the first thing that came to mind. "The only thing she could talk about was how to get him out." Puhleeze, next she'll be threatening to run over him with a car.

As for "she's just a student" -- B.S. when she pulls the lever in a voting booth it counts as much as mine. If her younger brother can step up to the plate like a man, she can defend her published works. No quarter, eh captain.

It appears that Ms. Leppla has been taking her directions straight from Cindy Sheehan's playbook. Once again some poor boy is too dumb to know what he wants to do and now his mother and sister need to protect him.

A for Tom Shipley's comment "I did see those comments, but I also didn't see them citing any particular facts she got wrong. In my experience, when someone gets a fact wrong, they usually cite it and correct it. It seems to me that they are more referring to her opinions, ie... the Naval Academy misled her brother.," I suggest he go back and read the comments again. Ignorance is not bliss and there were a number of comments posted directly refuting some of Ms. Leppla's statements, some by people who claimed to have been there at the time of Midshipman Leppla's induction.

I pity Ms. Leppla because, if that article is an example of her thought processes, she will have a very disappointing life. When you act in a foolish manner it has a way of coming back to haunt you. I personally find it hard to believe that she and her mother were so ill informed about the United States Naval Academy that they were unaware that it was a branch of the military. I can understand that some people might be unaware of that fact, but when her brother was applying for and then appointed to the Naval Academy causes me to question that belief. There is quite a bit involved in getting such an appointment and many steps to go through. If they truly did not know, that has to be the most dysfunctional family I've heard of and I can well understand why Midshipman Leppla might want to get away from them.

Perhaps more interesting is that it is a good example of the type of story many on the left seem to believe. To them anyone who would join the military or go to one of the service academies is too stupid to make his or her own decisions. At least this time the argument that only the poor have to join is refuted because obviously there is sufficient money for the sister to go to school.

Barnestormer, she's the one who wrote this in the first paragraph:

I know why I chose Columbia: the campus is magnificent, the education is top-tier, and my peers are intelligent. I could look at a stranger, tell him or her that I went to Columbia, and hear the predictable, “Wow, you must be smart.”

She's probably attending both, don't you think? Or does she not know which school she attends?

I have to admit, after I read the next to last paragraph of the quote, I had the sneaking suspicion that getting away from an over-clinging mother just might have been part of John Leppa's motivation. And sister Idris seems like part of the problem.

Assuming the person who posted this comment is, in fact, the initial author and not someone's sockpuppet, she admits this opinion is not factual but based on emotion.

But, hey, isn't that how libs always discuss things, based on emotion?

Posted by: Idris Leppla, author (not verified) | September 7th, 2007 @ 2:11pm

To all of you who took the time to read this article:

First of all, thank you very much for reading it. I do not know how to respond except to say that you are right in many respects: this article was not meant to be a piece of investigative journalism. It was not meant to serve as a litany of facts about the miltiary or specifically about the navy. It was not meant to dismiss the importance of having a military and it was not meant to pubically embarrass my brother.

In fact, my brother is such an incredible person that he and I have talked about how this reflects poorely on me, and he feels sorry that I come off as someone unable to conduct thorough research.

All I can say is that this article is not factual. It is based on emotion--and sadly emotion is what hinders rationality. Emotion and fear, emotion and uncertainty, emotion and sadness--is what prevents our clear vision and our normal perception of things. And I wrote this article as a function of my emotion. Because, truthfully, when any member of my family could be in danger (be it in the next month or next decade), I get emotional and I get fearful. Perhaps we all do. And for mothers and fathers whose lives have been bereaved by losing a son or daughter in the military, their lives may too become run by emotion.

The real question is: how do we balance an emotional knee jerk reaction to a personal experience with what should be done on a national level such that fewer families have to have this emotional shading of facts because they are too hurt to see anything else? How do we prevent either emotion, an an obstruction of facts, or personal motives from running our national polity? How do we do this on a citizen level, and how do we do this as a public official?

Before you criticize this article, please help me on the above questions--and if you can do this--if you can balance the emotional needs of military families with just and right conduct in the world--you can run the world.

Reason I was wondering about the father is because if there *was* a daddy any where nearby, he could have put his foot down and told the two dingbats to back off - which I have seen my father do when my mother was in full-throated pack-baying after some poor soul or other. The fact that a father isn't mentioned may mean that the kid is on his own against these two harridans, which is unfortunate because he'll need all the support he can get at Annapolis.

It also may mean that the two moonbats sacrificed the poor father under a full moon, unless the boy-child is a product of in vitro fertilization because the mother is too pathetic to even get herself successfully impregnated.

Barnard College is a women's undergraduate affiliate of Columbia University. Columbia College used to be its mens-only counterpart, but in the 1980s, went coeducational. So in other words, both Barnard and Columbia Colleges are undergraduate branches of Columbia University.

NOTE: I posted this comment three days ago on the Columbia Spectator website. Interestingly, it disappeared, then reappeared several times... I am reposting it here, as some of you commentating have said that Idris Leppla reported the truth, and not lies. WRONG.

I'm a mother of a USNA plebe (who knows MIDN 4/C Leppla, BTW). I am offended by Idris' opinion letter, as it contains blatant lies. Here is my post disputing her verision of the "facts" as she reported them.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Well, I am not going to engage in ad hominem attacks against you, Ms. Leppla. Tempting as it may be, and as angry as I am, I won't indulge myself.

But I do think that what you wrote is blatantly untrue - and that you deliberately put in details so that the Naval Academy would be shown in a very poor light. Here are three very specific examples of what you implied about USNA in your essay:

(1) deliberately deceptive

[example: your implication about the USNA course catalogue containing false or misleading information]

I have a copy of the 2007-2008 course catalogue right here on my desk. The courses your brother will be taking have titles like "Naval Leadership" and "Military Applications." It is hard to misinterpret these titles unless you are either developmentally challenged or living in a non-reality-based community.

(2) hyperviolent

[example: your description of Induction Day, with a "Navy marine shooting off an endless supply of rounds" on a video screen...]

No that didn't happen, the video didn't exist ... I was there in Tecumseh Court on I-Day, front and center, and saw nothing of the sort. Fabricating a salacious little detail like that is designed to show the Academy in the worst, most bloodthirsty kind of light. Oh, and there is no such thing as a "Navy marine" - if you are going to invent a new branch of the U.S. Military, you should do your research first and do it well.

(3) mind-controlling and brainwashing

[example: her depiction of how hard it would be for her brother to quit... it made USNA sound like the Moonies]

Plebes can - and do - leave the Naval Academy. At this point, three months post-induction, approximately 50 of your brother's 1,200 classmates have left, or "tangoed out". Again, you misrepresented the entire process of outprocessing in order to show the Academy in a poor light.

Ms. Leppla, no doubt you feel like our current administration has engaged in lies and deception - and we are now engaged in a war in Iraq as a result. You, however, have done precisely the same thing - your falsehoods about the Academy were done to "sell" your incorrect and deceptive essay to the Columbia (?) and Barnard community. You truly should be ashamed of this essay.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - -

What a lucky man John is. He’s going to have such a head start on life having gone through Annapolis! I wanted to go to Annapolis, but my grades didn’t allow for me to qualify. Today, I’ve done okay despite having attended Kent University (tin soldiers and Nixon coming…4 dead in O – HI –O,) and having graduated from their School of Journalism and Mass Communication. I did okay because I married an Accountant from Miami, and I disregarded my Journalism degree and went into Sales.

That said, my Nephew, a few years back, graduated as Valedictorian of his High-School Class. Had an opportunity to go to Annapolis including the recommendation of a State Representative. He didn’t. He wanted to go into psychology and graduated from a liberal college in Tennessee.

Today, he’s a tele-marketer. I love him anyway.

docjim505
On a related note, do the peacenik members of Congress still make appointments to the Academy? If so, why? Doesn't it bother their consciences that they are sending kids off to become murderers for Halliburton?

Eric:
Doc..you're awesome.

All I can say is that this article is not factual. It is based on emotion--and sadly emotion is what hinders rationality. Emotion and fear, emotion and uncertainty, emotion and sadness--is what prevents our clear vision and our normal perception of things. And I wrote this article as a function of my emotion. Because, truthfully, when any member of my family could be in danger (be it in the next month or next decade), I get emotional and I get fearful. Perhaps we all do. And for mothers and fathers whose lives have been bereaved by losing a son or daughter in the military, their lives may too become run by emotion.

First of all--don't try to use bereaved parents as cover for what you did. You didn't 'accidentally' misrepresent the facts, or write that out based on emotion. You made sh*t up. You got called on it. So now you're trying to reframe the debate. You haven't a freaking CLUE what parents who lost a son or daughter in the military feel. The fact that you try to equate your ignorant reaction to your brother's choice with a grief that deep is pretty low and disgusting. My brother and sister have both been deployed. To Iraq. As Marines. You want to talk about fear? When your brother's deployed, THEN talk to me about fear. Until then--you ever heard the saying, "it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth..." Yeah. Now's the time to shut up, listen, and learn.

On a citizen level, try moving beyond the typical knee jerk reaction that the institutions of the US military are kill-bot factories. Treat your brother and the other members of the armed services as people who are just as intelligent and capable as you--judging by what I've seen so far, quite a bit more so--who made an informed choice to serve their country.

You asked some absolutely fascinating questions, though you probably weren't anticipating the answers you're going to get.

How do we balance an emotional knee jerk reaction to a personal experience with what should be done on a national level such that fewer families have to have this emotional shading of facts because they are too hurt to see anything else?

I fail to see how you are 'hurt,' first of all. Leaving that aside, if you want a national-level solution, how about we stop slandering, insulting, and misrepresenting our military's traditions, institutions, training methods, and ethics? It takes one person to start a trend. YOU could be that person, Idris. You could do some research on these here interwebs and find out that the US military is better educated, as a population, than the rest of the US. You could look up the crime statistics of the US military as compared to the general population and find out they're far LOWER. Then you could start reading the Code of Conduct for each service to see what's required of every service member. You could read the damned oath your brother took. You could look beyond the propaganda you've been fed your entire life about the US military and learn what the institution ACTUALLY is. Then you could report accurately on it. If more journalists did that, that would alleviate a lot of pain and hurt in all those other ignorami suffering just like you. The distorted perception of soliders, sailors, Marines, and Airmen might finally be purged from the national psyche. Which answers your second question, too.

You want a serious response and a way to avoid putting yourself in this situation again? TAKE JOURNALISM SERIOUSLY. It used to be a respected profession. Do your homework. Report the facts even when they don't jive with your personal opinion or agenda. The country wouldn't be so deeply divided if partisan reporters hadn't worked decades to make it so. It's hard to come to ANY agreement when you have two sides that don't even work from the same source material anymore. If you're serious, apply yourself to honest reporting MINUS YOUR PERSONAL BIASES. It'll give you credibility as a reporter. It'll win the trust of your readers. And it'll save you a lot of embarrassment.

The post mac cites, if genuine, sounds like a cry for help from someone who loves her brother and is afraid to lose him.

It also helps to explain the article she wrote which bears the characteristics more of an hysterical rant than of a serious analytical piece.

BTW, there is a passage in her original article which implies that there is a dad on the scene:

During the first two “induction days,” the head of the Navy openly admitted that their goal was to transform these boys into men who would willingly die defending our country. They said to my parents, “We will manage to do in 18 minutes what you could not do in 18 years—we will discipline your boys and have them calling you Sir and Ma’am.”

Well said, Zoomie.

NahnCee, always a vigorous and colorful writer, describes a... " full-throated pack-baying after some poor soul or other..."

Gee, now what does that remind me of? Arghhh... can't quite put my finger on it... I'm sure it'll come to me eventually...

Captain,
My understanding is that Barnard College is affiliated with Columbia University, at the latter's Morningside Heights campus. I would think that she could properly claim to be considered a student of both. Perhaps the two entities bear a similar relationship to what Notre Dame's and St. Mary's might have been had that "merger" gone through. Or Harvard College/Harvard University. But that distinction is NOT the nit I'm picking.

Rather, it's that your indictment of the J-School seems to result in part from the (mistaken)apparent identification of the author as a J-School student, and thus reflecting the suspect quality of the school's student/products.
Not that there isn't ample evidence for that proposition. I just don't think that Idris, qua budding journalist, is Exhibit A.

And it's not like the "academies" article and its author aren't target rich for derision in their own respective rights. What kind of reach by an assignment editor does it take to search out a "four-part-series" like this anyway? Have all the ROTC buildings been burned? Isn't Neil Young still alive and kicking; even if Jim Rhodes isn't? (See Eric, above.)

I posted above re: the "Lies From Leppla".

Now, I want to say something else. I am sick, sick and tired of hearing that "liberals don't support the military". I am a USNA parent, and I'm in regular contact with other Academy parents, both here in my home state and online.

I must say: we are about 50% Democratic/liberal.

Shocking to you guys, I'm sure. But a huge number of liberals DO support the military, despite what your mythology says. My dad was a US Army Msgt. - oh, and a straight-ticket Dem. My grandpa? Old-school Democrat, and a WWII vet.

You know, both Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter - oh, and Tucker Carlson, too - are of age to put their bodies where their pro-war mouths are and ENLIST. Heck, they've got college degrees - they could even go the officer route.

I double-dog-dare you to go watch the below YouTube video, which has been seen by >150,000 people in the last few weeks. Tom Blumenthal from "The Nation" took a video camera in to the Young Republicans national conference, and asked them why they don't sign up.

If you dare to challenge your stereotypes of "liberals are chicken***t wimps", you will get an eyeful watching this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gFGit_tZDqs

Carol Herman:
Up ahead? Well, one of the things gained at Annapolis will be friends. Who have families. So if "junior" thinks his mom can wrap her candy around his "time off" from school; she might discover another step along the way of independence? A kid who has friends who take him home for the holidays.
And, then?
What if love comes along?
And, a new family forms;
You think these turdlings from rational thinking, do well? You think kids can't wait to grow up, and then continue this bilge with their own kids?
Something tells me a guy found a way OUT of his own choosing.
This is a key.
As to those here who see a difference between "jounalism courses" and poli science; just haven't been back to school in a long, long time.
Journalism courses, by definition, are a po-puri(le) of other departments. Making kids take a "little bit of this. And, a little bit of that." As their college debts mount. And, their opportunities after college get restricted.
The other thing I noticed? The "mother" in this story is a lone operator. Her son had no dad. About to be fixed NOW, though. And, good luck to him, too. He's got a whole broader outlook than ya can get just from some dames.

Eric:
Home run Carol. You hit it out of the park.

Del Dolemonte:

"As I recall, service families who are stationed with the service member are also "under the command" of whoever is in charge of that particular district, so they could be considered "military members" too, although not in the strictest sense of the term."

No, service families are not considered military members by anyone within the military. Yet another civilian misconception about the military and military life.

They are "dependents." They, as "dependents," are permitted certain perks/privileges for being a family member -- spouse or children. Access to the Post Exchange and Commissary, access to on-post recreational activities, on post medical facilities, and other facilities which are under appropriated and non-appropriated funding, among others. But, they are "dependents" and the perks/privileges allowed them can be cancelled at any time should they abuse any of them, and in cases where they are not "Command Sponsored" they may be allowed NO privileges at all. Sometimes, rarely, an elderly parent(s), under certain specific conditions AND if the parents) reside with the servicemember[sponsor] and are "Command Sponsored" they may be given "dependent" status. Brothers, sisters, cousins, and the like are NOT considered part of a service member's official family, and are not "dependents."

As "dependnets" they are required to follow ALL military regulations on the military base/reserve/station/post. In the case of overseas dependents they may or may not be covered by the most current Status of Forces Agreement in that country. In ALL cases they are subject to national and local civilian law, in the US and abroad. They cannot be represented in court by military lawyers, and are not subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Any action by the military against them is focused on their sponsor first. Failure to follow military regulations on the part of dependents subjects their sponsor to military sanctions, not themselves.

Yes, a good number of dependents make huge personal sacrifices married to a service member or as children of a service member. Most of the time they are given short shrift in the kudos department, which most richly deserve. They are a vital part of the service members life. And over the past several years the military is once again acknowleging their positive benefit to the service member.

But under no circumstance should they be considered a military member.

I think everyone's missing the obvious here. This seems more like a bratty sister trying to embarrass her brother possibly because she's jealous of the attention he receives. Sure, she's attending Columbia but he's at the NAVAL ACADEMY. Columbia is a big deal but come on, getting in there is like being accepted at a community college compared to admission at the naval academy.

Never underestimate sibling rivalry.

I didn't read all 93 comments, but it seems to me there is one thing lacking in this story: a father.

Kinda susplains everything.

Teresa says:
IF colleges are so damn liberal, then how do you explain the fact that despite rising numbers of college grads that people like George Bush keep getting elected? If colleges are indoctrinating people they sure are lousy at it.

Eric says:
Parents. Both Parents. That's how I explain it.

Filistro writes:

NahnCee, always a vigorous and colorful writer, describes a... " full-throated pack-baying after some poor soul or other..."

Gee, now what does that remind me of? Arghhh... can't quite put my finger on it... I'm sure it'll come to me eventually...

-----------------------

I agree with you Filistro. Some on here say that she made this a public issue by printing it online. I'd say that she probably thought the audience was the other people who attend Columbia -- many who disagreed with her. When was the last time any of you read the Columbia school newspaper? Instead what she got was some folks who purposefully troll the web looking for any excuse to get outraged in order to deflect attention from the woeful problems in their party.

So she got sucked up in a situation in which now people are checking to see her religion (!), speculating on whether her mother is so awful that she had to be artificially inseminated (!!), that she and her mother were happy that her father is dead (!!!)... Wait until Michelle Malkin gets hold of this and posts the girl's picture on Fox News and she starts getting hate mail from wackos in her personal mail.

Maybe college students these days will get the idea that what they write AS AN OPINION PIECE makes them fair game for adults they have never met in states far away and maybe it will have the intended effect of stifling debate. I wonder how many people here would feel if their college age kid got his name drug through the mud on big liberal websites.

(And I say this as someone who did not agree with the premise of her piece.)

Teresa says:
As far as stupid things that people say, I've seen all sorts of things that ADULTS write on this blog that they should be embarrased about, but conveniently never bother giving us their real names. How about comments about killing liberals and the rest? How ever stupid this girl is, at least she had the honesty to sign her OPINION piece.

Eric says:
Comments about killing liberals? I've never seen it even once. Show us that comment.

Teressa says:
Finally, as the wife of a college professor, I am a little tired of all the crap on right wing blogs about how "liberal professors" are indoctrinating students. Frankly, at the college my husband is at the winger professors are the only ones blathering on about politics in class. The rest are concentrating on teaching math and so forth.

Eric says:
Stop reading if it bothers you. Or, stop the liberal professors from spending their time preaching to the students. I vote for the later.

mak: Idris Leppla, author (not verified) --- The real question is: how do we balance an emotional knee jerk reaction to a personal experience with what should be done on a national level such that fewer families have to have this emotional shading of facts because they are too hurt to see anything else? How do we prevent either emotion, an an obstruction of facts, or personal motives from running our national polity? How do we do this on a citizen level, and how do we do this as a public official?

She's HURT because your brother is a midshipman at the Naval Academy and (gasp!) might have to go to war one day? Is this like "Starship Troopers" when Johnny's parents were outraged because he enlisted in the MI? What sort of person is "hurt" or feels anything other than pride when a loved one is accepted into one of the Academies, is commissioned from ROTC or OCS, or enlists in the armed services? I can understand worry: my family worried when my brother got sent to Bosnia. But "hurt"? What is there to be hurt about? Does it somehow insult her that her brother wants to be an officer in the Navy? I have to say that I don't really understand her thought processes. I don't feel bad about that: apparently, she doesn't understand them, either. Brainless twit.

In my mind, there is only one thing to do when a loved one goes off to war: give him every ounce of love and support your soul is capable of. You may not agree with the reasons he's going. You may not like the decision to send him. You may hate the man who gave the order. But the fact remains that your loved one is going to need all the moral support that you can provide. He DOESN'T need to be treated like a feeble-minded child who's been tricked into something or didn't know what he was getting into.

How do we prevent either emotion, an an [sic] obstruction of facts, or personal motives from running our national polity [sic - policy?]?

I love it when people get caught being stupid and try posing as an intellectual to cover for it! "Maybe if I ask what sounds like a deep philosophical question, people won't think I'm such a dumbass."

But let me take a crack at answering her deep philosophical question: DON'T LET YOUR EMOTIONS RULE YOU! If you are smart enough to realize that you're having a "knee jerk response", then you ought to be smart enough to take a deep breath, count to ten, get your emotions under control, and try to start thinking rationally.

As far as preventing emotions from running our national policy... Well, not letting liberals vote would help a lot in this regard, but I believe in democracy and think that citizens should be allowed to vote regardless of race, color, creed, sex, national origin, or brain function.

PROPOSED:

1. Raise the age of majority to thirty. Obviously, people even in their middle- to late 20s are not adults and should be treated with the same tolerance presently extended to six year-olds. Mentally handicapped six year-olds, I should say.

2. If a person is self-identified as a liberal, there is no age of majority: they are never, ever to be held responsible for anything they say or do.

Teresa: ... folks who purposefully troll the web looking for any excuse to get outraged in order to deflect attention from the woeful problems in their party.

Why, Cap'n Ed, I do believe she's talking about you! I didn't get the memo this morning: what woeful problem are we trying to cover up today?

Oh, and Teresa: if I had a child who wrote something as stupid as what Idris wrote, the outrage and scorn of people on the internet would pale to insignificance in comparison to the earful she'd get from me.

vnjagvet said:
The post mac cites, if genuine, sounds like a cry for help from someone who loves her brother and is afraid to lose him.

Eric says:
Nonsense. Is she afraid that he'll be lost to the war with Virginia? Are we at war in Virginia? Do we expect to be at war with Virginia in the next 5-6 years? I don't.

Eric -- I'm not sure how to look through my old comments on this blog, but there is one that dealt specifically with threats to "hang" all the traitorous liberals. There are some very odd people that comment on this blog. Perhaps Filistro or Starfleet is better versed in how to pull up those comments than I am.

DocJim -- I am saying that the response is way over the top to the offense. Sure, go ahead and berate your college age student, let the other kids on campus berate her, her professors berate her, etc... But strangers who would have never seen this had not Ace of Spades and World Wide Standard and, yes, even the beloved Captain decided to broadcast it far and wide with no respect for the fact that some loon could decide to retaliate against her? That I think is out of bounds.

As to the many things which might have been discussed today instead how about Alan Greenspan's comments about how the Bush taxcuts were a bad idea? But, no, let's go talk about what some unknown college student wrote about in the school newspaper.

But strangers who would have never seen this had not Ace of Spades and World Wide Standard and, yes, even the beloved Captain decided to broadcast it far and wide with no respect for the fact that some loon could decide to retaliate against her? That I think is out of bounds.

Call it a hard lesson in real-world journalism--actually, a lesson most journalists never get to learn and badly need. Accountability for what they publish.

docjim505 says:
She's HURT because your brother is a midshipman at the Naval Academy and (gasp!) might have to go to war one day? Is this like "Starship Troopers" when Johnny's parents were outraged because he enlisted in the MI?

Eric says:
Doc -- you're double awesome.

Eric,

Thank you. Back at you.

filistro says:
NahnCee, always a vigorous and colorful writer, describes a... " full-throated pack-baying after some poor soul or other..."

Gee, now what does that remind me of? Arghhh... can't quite put my finger on it... I'm sure it'll come to me eventually...

Eric says:
Let me help you. It reminds you of yourself.

Zoomie -- You say: "Call it a hard lesson in real-world journalism--actually, a lesson most journalists never get to learn and badly need. Accountability for what they publish."

Except for the fact that NO ONE has established that she is a journalism student. Lots of people publish opinion pieces -- like General Petreaus -- in newspapers without being journalists.

A friend of mine wrote a letter to the editor of our local newspaper complaining about the fact that the local junior high was giving course credit for bible study at a public school. (He and his kids are Jewish and felt highly pressured by the school to sign up for this class which is held off campus at a local fundamentalist church.) You can agree or disagree with his position, but you would not believe the hate mail to his home address, phone calls to his home, harrassment of his kids that occurred afterwards. And we live in a town of about 50,000 people in South Carolina.

Imagine that reaction times a thousand now that this student's words have been broadcast over the internet.

My son just graduated USNA class of '07. It's pretty straight forward that the trade off for a free education is 5 years service after graduation. There was no mystery or misconception about it. That was the deal. The academy gives you plenty of information on their curriculum and objectives. As I said it is not a mystery to anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention.

BTW, graduates who chose the surface warfare community do get deployed right after their four years. My son is serving as a division officer on LSD-44 operating in the Persian gulf right now.

Doc writes:
How do we prevent either emotion, an an [sic] obstruction of facts, or personal motives from running our national polity [sic - policy?]?

I love it when people get caught being stupid and try posing as an intellectual to cover for it! "Maybe if I ask what sounds like a deep philosophical question, people won't think I'm such a dumbass."

Eric says:
Doc...You're either triple awesome, or I've fallen in love with you. Not sure which.

Eric writes: "Or, stop the liberal professors from spending their time preaching to the students. I vote for the later."

Guess what Eric? My liberal husband spends his time teaching math. Down the hall from a government professor who keeps the door open as he lectures students about what horrible people liberals are and how the Clintons were communists. Can you get that guy to stop "preaching" to his students or do you only care about "liberal" ideas being spread at colleges.

You also write that the reason Republicans keep getting elected to office despite the so-called "indoctrination" of college students by liberals on campus is "parents." Did they not go to college either? Wait, you say "both parents" so I guess what you are saying is that children unfortunate enough to lose a father or mother fighting in Iraq -- or cancer, or heart attack, or car accidents -- are doomed to become liberals later in life. Nice.

Teresa said:
As to the many things which might have been discussed today instead how about Alan Greenspan's comments about how the Bush taxcuts were a bad idea?

Eric says:
Yes, or perhaps Hillary's opinion of George Bush? Or maybe why we think the war is being lost? Or maybe how we can improve America by reducing our defense spending? Or why Bush lied and people died...for oil?

I guess maybe tomorrow, Captain Ed might decide to let you drive the boat, but I can tell you that I certainly wont be a passanger on that cruise.

Look, you guys are taking an op-ed piece by a poly-sci student in a student newspaper with a small circulation and crucifying it as part of your campaign to smear journalism and journalists (and the left). If you take offense at her – now admittingly – emotional lacking in facts op-ed, then you should look in the mirror at yourselves and your attacks on Journalism and in particular Journalism school.

You don’t know what the policy is at the paper. Obviously this girl wanted to write this op-ed. As I said before, you don’t know what kind of shape this was in before it was published, or you don’t know how much the editorial board touches op-eds…

You have no fucking clue. You are just MMQing this from behind your keyboards, getting on your high horse and absolutely murdering this girl and her family. It’s disgusting. Seriously. You should really, really be ashamed here. You have people bringing up her religion, calling her and her mother idiots. Questioning the integrity of this family. It’s fucking disgusting.

http://orangecow.org/pythonet/scripts/Episode09-FullFrontalNudity.txt

(Cut to a military office. Colonel is seated at desk, writing. There is a
knock at the office door.)

Colonel: Come in.

(Private Watkins enters and salutes.)

What do you want?

Watkins: I'd like to leave the army please, sir.

Colonel: Good heavens man, why?

Watkins: It's dangerous!

Colonel: What?

Watkins: There are people with guns out there, sir.

Colonel: What?

Watkins: Real guns, sir. Not pr... Not toy ones, sir. Proper ones, sir.
They've all got 'em. All of 'em, sir. And some of 'em have got tanks.

Colonel: Watkins, they are on our side.

Watkins: And grenades, sir. And machine guns, sir. So I'd like to leave,
sir, before I get killed, please.

Colonel: Watkins, you've only been in the army a day!

Watkins: I know sir, but people get killed, properly dead, sir, no blarney
crossed fingers, sir. A bloke was telling me, if you're in the army and
there's a war, you have to go and fight.

Colonel: That's true.

Watkins: Well, I mean, blimey! I mean, if it was a big war somebody could
be hurt!

Colonel: (shaking slightly) Watkins, why did you join the army?

Watkins: For the water-skiing and for the travel, sir. And not for the
killing, sir. I asked them to put it on my form, sir - no killing.

Colonel: Watkins, are you a pacifist?

Watkins: No sir, I'm not a pacifist, sir. I'm a coward.

Colonel: That's a very silly line. Sit down.

Watkins: Yes sir. Silly, sir. (sits in corner)

Colonel: Awfully bad.

Both of them have a lot of learning to do, and it doesn't appear it's happening at Columbia or Barnard.

Like you have a fucking clue or could possibly tell from this one op-ed. Christ.

Oh, great.

The doc was hard enough to deal with before. Now he's acquired a groupie!

Teressa says:
Guess what Eric? My liberal husband spends his time teaching math. Down the hall from a government professor who keeps the door open as he lectures students about what horrible people liberals are and how the Clintons were communists. Can you get that guy to stop "preaching" to his students or do you only care about "liberal" ideas being spread at colleges.

Eric says:
Okay...if the conservative professor is doing that, he should be fired. It goes 10:1 in the other direction Teresa, and you know it as well as any of us.

Teresa scolds: As to the many things which might have been discussed today instead how about Alan Greenspan's comments about how the Bush taxcuts were a bad idea?

OK. Was this what you had in mind?

Greenspan also said that he supported President Bush's tax cuts but was ignored when he argued that the cuts should be paid for by spending reductions.
"I thought that the structure of the tax cut was fine, but it had to be paid for," Greenspan said. See

Welcome aboard; happy to have another true conservative complaining about Bush's profligacy.

Now, can we tee up illegal immigration as topic #2, or would you prefer to go back to the Senate's treaty-making powers?

Teressa said:
You also write that the reason Republicans keep getting elected to office despite the so-called "indoctrination" of college students by liberals on campus is "parents." Did they not go to college either? Wait, you say "both parents" so I guess what you are saying is that children unfortunate enough to lose a father or mother fighting in Iraq -- or cancer, or heart attack, or car accidents -- are doomed to become liberals later in life. Nice.

Eric says:
By this, I mean that Parents teach values. Values are stronger than propaganda, either conservative or liberal. When parents teach lessens, professors are not able to un-teach them. You know as well as everyone else reading this that I have nothing against the unfortunate dead.

Tom Shipley said:
&*&(98&7**7**&*756&^455!!!

Eric says:
Calm down Tom. We stopped talking about her years ago. "She" is a politial movement, not a person. We're now talking about a movement, not her.

She is a generic idea. I don't even recall he name. Nobody does and nobody will.

Yeah, you guys will move on just like that. Trash her and her family and move on to the next victim.

coldwarrior 451 said:

"Yet another civilian misconception about the military and military life."

Sorry, but I'm a military brat myself-not a "civilian".

The reason I asked the question was because when my Dad (and us) were stationed at one of our many postings, the Commanding Officer of our district (Coast Guard) was described as "commanding" not only the CG officers and enlisted people, but also their family members.

Of course I know that that military family members are not "true military", which is why I added the disclaimer at the end of my original statement. But as I'm sure you know, if a military family member engages in any sort of activity that could be considered "suspicious", the military will immediately take notice, even if such an activity would be ignored by "civilian" authorities (I speak from personal experience LOL).

The original point I was trying to make was that being a military brat gives one almost as much of an insight into how the military works as actually serving-especially if you live on-base, which my family and I did. This as opposed to the knowledge of the military exhibited by the "civilians" on the Left.

Posted by Tom Shipley | September 17, 2007 8:20 PM

Yeah, you guys will move on just like that. Trash her and her family and move on to the next victim.

Eric says:
Right...she's a victom. Thanks for the insight Tom.

What's with all the foul language and name calling? Is this piece really all that important? This woman is airing a family squabble in public and doing so to bring attention to herself. The piece isn't really about her brother or even about the naval academy, it's about her, what she feels, how she thinks about everything.

Since the brother clearly can't or wouldn't respond publicly we have no idea what he thinks or even what the parents really think. This is just an exercise in post-adolescent narcissism....me...me....everybody look at me, everybody feel bad for me. I don't think she's worthy of this much attention or people here losing their tempers over it.

Teresa,

This is getting a little ridiculous. People have no right to be immune from criticism if they pipe up. None. Part of playing the game is being hit; if you don't like it, then don't play. Yeah, it sucks to be attacked by people you don't know, especially when they misconstrue what you say or intend (like when I was a freshman in college and was attacked in the school paper as a bigot because I dared to suggest that a black student group hire a lawyer in response to what they thought were racist actions by the police rather than "getting answers" themselves). This is part of debate in a free, open society. There are no guarantees that people will like or support your opinions when you decide to share them. Now, if opposition goes from harsh criticism to outright threats or actual harrassment, then need it be said that I think the police should step in?

For better or for worse, the internet means that we don't live in nice little cocoons anymore. Leppla wrote what I think is a stupid, slanderous op-ed about her brother and the Naval Academy. Apaprently, a lot of people agree with me, and I'm sure that she's gotten lots of hate mail... but I'm sure she's also gotten lots of supporting mail from people who think she's "speaking truth to power" about the eeeevil Navy. It may be that she'll decide that she likes the attention and support, and will keep on writing. Or, it may be that the next time she gets an itch to write an op-ed, she'll pause, think about it, then close her word processor and go read Kos or play with her horsey dolls.

Finally, I would say that the libs' defense of poor Idris highlights an odious lib tactic for stifling debate: the victim card. "You can't criticize her! She's JUST A KID!" We saw it with the "Jersey Girls" after 9-11, with the poor lunatic Cindy Sheehan, and with Michael J. Fox: people enter the arena of ideas, take hits, and are immediately defended because they are (somehow) victims. The Jersey Girls were free to criticize Bush because they'd lost their husbands in 9-11; the lunatic Sheehan was free to criticize Bush because she lost her son in Iraq; Fox was free to criticize Jim Talent on stem cell research because he has Parkinson's Disease. Now, Idris is free to criticize the Navy because of her age. What's next? Michael Moore gets a pass because he's obese or because he's a yankee? The Hilldabeast gets a pass because she's a woman or because her husband cheated on her?

If you play, either take your hits and stay in the game, or get the hell off the field.

Hey, Tom Shipley, Idris brought her mother into this. Not us.

Oh, and as far as moving on to the next victim, I'm all in favor of abusing this little twit for the next week or two. If she writes anything more in the student paper, we could extend for a month or more. Hell, given her talent, I'm sure that the NYT or Keith Olbermann will pick her up and then we can chew on her bones for at least six months.

Does that make you feel better?

By the way, does anybody remember Cap'n Ed's previous victim? I guess we moved on so fast that I've completely forgetten.

Victim in the sense that she doesn't deserve to be hit like this. You guys are so fucking defensive, she's goddamn student writing for a student newspaper.

Sure, she can be criticized for it. There was actually a very good and reasoned retort to her article by a military guy on the school's site. But, as Eric pointed out, this really isn't about this girl. This is just another plot in your story line that Journalism is bad. You make broad and inaccurate assumptions based on this one op-ed and use it for more of your attacks on journalism and the left.

This girl doesn't deserve to be a pawn in this game. She doesn't deserve to be called an idiot. She doesn't deserve to have her parents attacked, her family's integrity challanged. She doesn't deseerve to have her religion thrown into this.

So excuse be if I fucking swear, but this whole thread is pathetic.

Tom,

>>Look, you guys are taking an op-ed piece by a poly-sci student in a student newspaper with a small circulation and crucifying it as part of your campaign to smear journalism and journalists (and the left).

Ah, yes. The Campaign Conspiracy (TM) rears its head. Why is it that lefties have to blame everything on a conspiracy? I mean, I feel like I should throwing a black cloak over my shoulder now and then.

Actually, given Moveon's antics, the Congressional Dems, and now the Ms's Leppla, I don't believe it is actually possible to "smear" the left.

>>If you take offense at her – now admittingly – emotional lacking in facts op-ed, then you should look in the mirror at yourselves and your attacks on Journalism and in particular Journalism school.

Ah yes. She's "lacking in facts". IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, YOU WINGERS!. Classic liberalism.

>As I said before, you don’t know what kind of shape this was in before it was published, or you don’t know how much the editorial board touches op-eds…

Good Lord. Why would the Editorial board consider anything that appears on the editorial page?

>>You have no fucking clue.

Well, actually, some of us do. Some of us know that the story she spun had a whiff of BS to it. And....

>> calling her and her mother idiots.

Yeah. They send someone off to the US Naval Academy and don't realize it's part of the USN? Calling them idiots is insulting to idiots.

>>Questioning the integrity of this family.

Yeah. We question the integrity of someone who insists on treating an 18-year-old like a victimized infant. We question the integrity of someone who treats any member of the military as a sociopathic freak.
And we question the integrity of anyone who publishes a piece of journalism that is riddled with, in your words, such a massive "lack of facts".

Zoomie -- You say: "Call it a hard lesson in real-world journalism--actually, a lesson most journalists never get to learn and badly need. Accountability for what they publish."

Except for the fact that NO ONE has established that she is a journalism student. Lots of people publish opinion pieces -- like General Petreaus -- in newspapers without being journalists.

Right, she's a political science major and a senior at Barnard. Much better. My point stands. She's responsible for what she wrote, she's a legal adult, she takes her knocks. That article was written either with malice or stupidity so incredible it almost defies belief. It's part of a four-part series, so it's not a simple one-shot op-ed, and we can assume more lies and slander will be forthcoming if the response to her first part hasn't made her reconsider.

AND IT SHOULD. How many of her fellow mushheaded students read it and believed it? I've got no tolerance for ANY lies about our military. It's one thing to criticize with the intent to improve. It's another thing to simply blacken reputations because of bigotry or ignorance, and there's FAR too much tolerance for blatantly untruthful smears in our country.

You're demanding we tolerate what's intolerable, to me, because...why? She's a kid? No, she's not. She's a senior in college. Because she's stupid? That's self-evident, and would've gone unremarked if she hadn't drawn attention to that fact so spectacularly. That she's a bigot? Well, the US prides itself on tolerance of the intolerant, I guess. I personally don't. I could give a damn who she is or what school she goes to; the fact that she's writing a four-part piece and is a political science major just adds insult to injury. The bottom line is that she's trashing a US military academy and by extension the US military before a young and gullible audience, and you're damn right I won't let that stand. She's just one more leftist piling on the institution that protects her pathetic skin.

The Columbia Spectator may have a "small audience" (circulation is 10,000) but they have offices on Broadway in New York, unlike most "student newspapers". They also offer subscriptions for people outside of New York.

http://spc.columbiaspectator.com/?p=3

In other words, this isn't your garden-variety small-time student run paper, despite what people like Mr. Shipley would want you to believe. And my guess is that each one of those 10,000 copies is read and passed around by more than one reader.

Tom Shipley,

Seriously, what would you have us do? Would it be better if we just stuck to the topic of Bush lied and people died? Is that what it will take to avoid any hint of being aggressive towards the “victims” that lash out at our military and its' militaristic ways? Earlier, in another thread, you were ranting about Congress not supporting the soldiers (rightfully so.) Don’t you feel that this is part of the problem?

Do you think it would be better had we just left the whole thing alone? That could have been accomplished by the no-name girl and her no-name mother who decided to print a newspaper article about what jerks the military is for having an advanced school and brain-washing their beloved little boy into attending one of the 25 best schools in the world.

I mean seriously, Tom. I’ve read some of your post before, and this response seems uncharacteristic for you.

In a nutshell. The girl’s wrong for what she did. She knows it because she printed an apology. The apology was back-handed. We’re discussing this because it fascinates us that people do this stuff. Stop reading. You’re getting to close to the story. It’s over. Nobody is going to harm her, or her family.

What pisses me off about this is that there's no mercy. If there's any time in the debate between left and right to pull back and show some restraint, it's with young people.

But no, it's just attack, attack, attack. Attack her mother. Attack her "fatherless" family. It just really gets to me sometimes.

And what gets to me too is that this was used to attack Journalism, or the state of Journalism school. Which is just ridiculous. This girl is being used to promote people's anti-journalism agenda... and she's not even a journalist!

This was obviously a raw piece for her. It's obvious there were problems with the op-ed. And yeah, the editorial staff probably should have done a better job (but then again, I don't know how they handle op-eds. A lot of what she wrote was first-person experience, so I don't know how much they really could have done). But just relent a little for once. All this hate just continuously being spewed...

She's a student writing for a student publication. She and her family really don't deserve this kind of attention or vitiriolic attack.

Tom,

Roger. I'll just stop. You seem to feel very strongly about it, so out of respect for you, I'll stop.

Tom,

We're angry at this girl because she LIED. And she EXAGGERATED. And she attempted to besmirch the reputation of a service academy - said service academy has already given a dozen or more of its graduates' lives in service to Operation Enduring Freedom.

And, hey, Tom - I'm a liberal. As blue as they get. And I can get this one - it's a no-brainer.

Thanks for at least seeing where I'm coming from, Eric.

I need to get some sleep. I apologize for the foul language.

Zoomie: And, the lady's got college tuition bills.

Her brother does not.

Right off the bat you can see who's who. And, who is getting ahead. Unless you like needless debt.

Perhaps, the lady lives at home? Keeps her costs a bit lower, if so.

But her brother is stil ahead.

Seems to me, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. And, it's not made easier if he's been raised without a man in the house; when he was just a mere boy. A kidling.

Mom thought she'd run a guilt trip?

What did she do? Threaten to throw her head in the oven? If its an electric oven it explains the frizziness and the cinge.

By the3 way, most of the kids acepted to Annapolis probably come from intact families. Moms can cry all they want to; but it's a different household, usually, when a man rules the roost.

And, sometimes, you can grasp facts from what you read; even if you don't see poppa in the background. Our writer, here, didn't think of asking him one question? Can you be a poli sc SENIOR at Barnard and be clueless about conception?

You don't find anything odd about the lacking male voice? Where's poppa? He had no opinion?

Aren't kids taught, that if they're gonna write a "balanced piece," they'd ask the other half of the union that produces kidlings at conception?

Boy, has this lady got a lot to learn.

Plus, she starts off burdened by the debt she'll pay to meet so many fine liberal professors.

I wonder when she gets smart enough to ask for a refund?

For Tom Shipley:

Yes, this article is clearly on the opinion page of the paper. However, it is clearly not a letter-to-the-editor type of commentary where we could cut the girl the kind of slack you seek. This is a much more involved piece, longer than most letters-to-the-editor, and apparently thought by the editors to be significant enough to be the lead article of a 4 part series. Surely, we should treat this more like an op-ed by a junior grade Michelle Malkin or Bill Krystol. The lead-in does not state whether the other 3 parts are to be by the same author or by 3 different writers. Lets be charitable and assume different people presenting different viewpoints. That still makes her the lead, and apparently she was making a point the editors want to discuss. She deserves the comments received. Is she or the editors associated with the J-scool? Unknown; but as her presentation is simply a condensation of all the poorly researched, anti-military biased articles constantly presented in the MSM everyday, it is easy to make that leap.

My personal experience with the journalists is that they are generally English majors (since the J-school is post graduate) and are inadequate to deal with any storey that has to deal with facts, or physical world. Once had to give a presentation to a reporter on the anniversary of the Mianus Bridge failure. Gave her my Cub Scout presentation; the reporter was with me every step f the way but she was almost immediately over her head. The resulting article was obviously one that had been 95% written at the office the day before the interview. This girl fits right in. Sorry, Tom. She just validates too many conservative stereotypes of the MSM.

By the3 way, most of the kids acepted to Annapolis probably come from intact families. Moms can cry all they want to; but it's a different household, usually, when a man rules the roost.

Carol Herman,

Don't post about what you don't know. I am a single mom, a liberal, and my son is a plebe at the USNA, Class of 2011.

Don't you dare make assumptions about single mothers. Last month, at the conclusion of Plebe Summer, a group of USNA parents from our plebe's summer company gathered together for dinner in Annapolis. The demographics? Half of us were divorced, some remarried, some not.

It's no big deal to raise a good, intellectually and physically strong child if you're a single mother.

One of the single mothers at our USNA parents' gathering had a husband who died on 9/11 - he was a FDNY member. You have an opinion about that, Carol???

To ease confusion about Barnard/Columbia, they are very closely associated. Barnard is across Broadway from Columbia's main campus, and the students at each school may take classes at the other. In reality, the only real differences are that they have different admissions processes, housing, and diplomas. Also, the Spectator, while run and written by Columbia and Barnard students, is actually financially independent of the school, so it is kept at arms length from any departmental associations. Sadly, this piece is pretty typical for the Spectator.

gonavy2011

Best of luck to your son. Anyone who gets accepted obviously has their head in the right place regardless of their family situation. The fact is that mids come from a wide variety of demographics and they all managed to get accepted.

They deserve credit not for what their parents did but for what each one of them as individuals decided they wanted to accomplish.

Go Navy! Beat Army!

Something here does not pass the smell test. If he has been at the academy less than 2 years he can leave at any time. He does not have to go through 13 interviews and sure as hell does not have to interview the "head of the Navy". If its his first summer he has gone through basic, which is like a lot of other basic trainings. Now that academics have started he can call home every night. And he can be out of there in 48 hours if he wanted.

So, I just have to call BS on this article. Its purpose appears to just be to smear the military any way possible. Your brother can leave if he wants to, so talk to him, not the Navy.

You don't get it, Go Navy 2011, do ya?

But here's the skinny: There's no way you can take all the credit! Sorry.

All you can do is scream a lot in labor. Women do.

And, just like some kids "go out" for adoption, one of the best gifts kids get is to have both a mom. AND, A DAD.

There's no way single moms are advertisements for "doing it alone," even if they raise great children; and all they did was start off with sperm "from a friend," and a bulb baster.

Divorce? Sure. Our society is full of it.

But when you see a story like the one that appears here; the first thing that's gone missing is the dad's voice. Ain't there.

Could the dad have been killed on 9/11? Nobody knows. The voice is missing. But in your post, you're saying a woman is widowed on 9/11. Her husband was a fireman.

And, ya know what? His voice isn't missing. The man, if he left kids, left them for others to prepare for manhood.

It's just not a job a woman can do alone.

That some do?

Sure.

But strong women can make infants of their sons. Boys who just never grow up.

Here? Not the story you got! You got a story where a boy turns to Annapolis for his college education. Which our military will provide FREE. And, in the process? There's a good chance a boy becomes a man.

As a matter of fact, kids raised in the 1920's were thought to be "soft." And, then came Pearl Harbor. And, an outpouring of America's men, joining the ranks of the army.

Did you know the Army ADVERTISED that they made men?

And, you bet. They did.

Lots of people understand conception. Then a few get lost. They think woman can do it all; when, in fact, the luckiest kids in the world have both a momma and a pappa. Divorces don't break those bonds.

HOWEVER, if a dad is missing? Look, again, at what got written. See if you see a voice that comes from someone whose neck displays an Adam's Apple.

Because I didn't see it.

And, this boy, in this story, is on his way to a successful manhood. To do that? It's a "naval ooperation," where a boy has to finally cut the umbilical cord. For some reason moms hate that. And, they complain.

Which is why so many men, finally, just ignore the screaming and the yelling. Some learn a few tricks. To get along. Where instead of opening their hearts (where they can tell ya what they want, for real.) They learn to phrase things so that women don't explode.

Meanwhile, when another woman throws a temper tantrum, why should I care?

mvfreeman - many thanks for the kind wishes. I just spoke with my son a few hours ago; he rates the Academy as a "9" out of 10 right now - really has a great company, a squadmate who is a 'prior' with service in Iraq, and is being challenged but doing well with his academic and athletic schedule. We're all counting the days until Thanksgiving - it will be a very special holiday for all of us.

Carol - I have nothing to say to you, except that my son is in service to his country so that people like you can have the freedom of speech to insult people like his mother.

I thought I posted this, but I don't see it. If it's there, and this is redundant, my apologies.

Tom,
Haven't you figured out by now that trashing people for not celebrating their war is the modus oparandi for the right wing? If military families aren't 100% behind this ill-begotten war, they aren't patriotic, they aren't Americans, and they should have their citizenship revoked, and spend some time with enhanced interrogation techniques before being shot for treason. It doesn't matter their concern about the bogus reasons we got into this, and the incompetence in prosecuting it.

And notice, Tom, the careful, principled argument that Ed offers:

>
This is exactly how the Left sees the men and women who volunteer to defend this nation. It's why they keep referring to them as "children" that we send to war.
>

Now, it happens to be a fact of both biology and the English language that I am the child of my sixty-nine year old mother, as this young man is the child his mother. But the shame and tragedy of parents burying their children is a fact that they'll simply have to bear with the pat on the back that they served their country under clueless incompetence.

But let's not miss the larger argument Ed makes, repeated innumerable times here: We can take the overwrought troubles of a family worried about their their son and brother, and tar "the Left" with whatever this young woman said. It's not just the problem with "J-schools" who would publish somebody's seditious and treasonous point of view, but the entire treasonous Left. The Left made a symbol of Cindy Sheehan, not the right. The left made a symbol of Pat Tillman, not the right. It's impossible for "the Left" to be patriotic, to disagree, to think that our security has been compromised, that our freedoms have been abridged, and our opinions marginalized because. That's simply the new reality. Remember, Ari Fleischer warned us: be careful what you say. That young woman wasn't careful and deserves the beating she'll take for it.

By the time that woman's son graduates, we'll still be in Iraq, no matter who is elected in '08.

Tom,
compassion doesn't matter, reason doesn't matter, the thuggery that shocked you is the only true patriotism of Good Americans.

Also, being admitted to Barnard is the same as being admitted to Columbia; it's the traditional women's side of the college. It's the same with Radcliffe; if you're a woman admitted to Radcliffe, you go to Harvard. The distinctions have been completely blurred, even if on some piece of paper it says one or the other. That's not a distortion or a lie. It's how the universities themselves speak about the colleges affiliated.

On the plus side, Idris did write a fairly comprehensive review of that "tricky food" yogurt: http://www.columbiaspectator.com/node/20746

Lemme guess... no Dad. Domineering sister and mother. I'd want to get the hell out, too.

Now I want to hear from skeptical's mother. Did she know he was going to come to CaptainsQuartersBlog.com when he got internet service? Did anybody explain to Mommy what would happen to her precious child? I'd just post a usual kneejerk rightwing flame to skeptical's post but I want to be compassionate.

Remember, the only reason people join the military is because the economy sucks because of G.W.'s tax cuts. Obviously sister sucked up all the familys resources going to the "smart school" leaving little brother with no other choice and now she feels guilty. This fine young man spent 2 years of his life just doing the work required to get into the Academy (not counting 4 years of good grades) and this is what he gets from members of his family? Sounds like sister is ashamed to admit to her friends her brother is a "baby killer" so she can say "yes, my brother is in the Navy but they conned him into joining and intimidate him into staying". I'll bet it does hurt when one of her fellow students fresh from reading DailyKos tells her he hopes her brother dies a gruesome death for joining the neo-con war machine.

Captain --

This is about pure POWER and nothing else.

Women in particular are profoundly threatened by the military, since the military is not friendly to a good round of Oprah-esque "You Go Girl" clap-trap. Unlike the power centers of the Left, with it's deeply feminized value system and pacifism and appeasement and anti-masculine values, the military has room for none of that.

As such the military merely by existing as a mostly male bastion of breaking things and killing people when called upon, presents an EXISTENTIAL threat to the feminized left and of course women's power to run everything, everywhere, in this country.

Both the man's sister and mother find his independence threatening. Threatening to their power over him. To control his life. Ironically they decry the very same power held over women to control their own bodies in case of abortion or contraception.

Come on.

Obviously the man's sister and mother find the idea of the US Navy with it's male-oriented mission of defending the nation a horror.

Generally speaking the thing to conclude from this is that women and men's political and social goals are largely incompatible and zero-sum games. When women become socially and politically powerful they seek to suppress men's freedom of actions and their lives just as men do.

My personal experience with the journalists is that they are generally English majors (since the J-school is post graduate

Journalism is a regular undergraduate degree. Often times colleges with have seperate schools for journalism (like Medill at Northwestern) and I'm sure there are post-graduate Journalism programs, but it's usually undergrad.

Man, the lib comments just keep getting better and better! Let me see if I can summarize:

1. WAAAAHHHHHH!!!! You shouldn't pick on her! She's just a kid! WAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

2. WAAAAHHHHHH!!!! You shouldn't pick on her! She's not a journalist! WAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

3. WAAAAHHHHHH!!!! You shouldn't pick on her! People are entitled to their opinion! WAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

4. WAAAAHHHHHH!!!! You shouldn't pick on her! Conservatives are just ol' meanies! WAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

5. WAAAAHHHHHH!!!! You shouldn't pick on her mother! WAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

I especially guffaw at Tom Shipley's assertion that conservatives are all about "attack, attack, attack". Lefties, of course, are sweet, kind, charitable, tolerant, kind-to-small-animals-and-children, lovable, marshmallowy, piglety creatures who NEVER say bad things about anybody. Yeah, right! Tell that to Robert Bork, or Clarence Thomas, or Newt Gingrich, or Michelle Malkin, or that idiot Alberto Gonzales, or that buffoon Trent Lott, or George W. Bush.

skeptical's attempt to play the anti-patriotism card is also laughable:

Haven't you figured out by now that trashing people for not celebrating their war is the modus oparandi for the right wing?

Yeah: indignation about a juvenile smear of the Naval Academy is just the right lashing out at people who criticize "our" war (I thought it was Bush's war). This incident has nothing to do with a brainless, childish twit and her pathetic "article" about the Naval Academy. /sarcasm

Oh, one last thought about the "she's not a journalist!" meme: perhaps not, but she IS an adult AND a student at one of the most prestigious universities in America (which is to say, the world). One would think that she'd do a bit more research before writing such a lengthy article, ESPECIALLY since her own brother is a middie at the USNA. Her mother (who, we may presume, is as brainless as Idris herself) should have a long talk with her daughter about her obvious lack of scholarly abilities along the lines of, "Have you actually been going to class? Do you bother to pay attention during lectures? What kind of grades have you been getting? What the hell am I paying all those tuition bills for? Can't you do better than this???"

filistro,

Are you trying to imply that I wasn't already completely unbearable? I'm deeply hurt; I am the chairman and professor emeritus of the Dept. of Unbearable at Unbearable University!

As for having A groupie... I'm a quality control chemist, so I have millions of groupies already (it's a cross we QC people have to bear). I assure you that one more won't go to my (already grossly swollen) head!

;-)

It's kind of interesting how "doc" skips over the libs - like me - who found fault with dear Idris' falsehood-filled essay and even bothered to document said falsehoods - as I did.

It's doubly interesting how "doc" ignored the fact that there's a real, live liberal secular humanist feminist on the board (that's me) who *gasp* comes from a military family - and has her first and only son at the Naval Academy.

Kind of kicks your exclaimation-point-abusing points in the posterior, doesn't it??

Oh, and QC chemists are, well, tools. I'm a biophysical chemist. Much smarter. Much cuter. And we make a LOT more money. Ha.

Doc,

I'm not addressing liberals, I'm addressing people on this site. And yes, the are plenty of liberals who constantly attack.

But this thinking that, as long as someone else on the otherside is doing it, it's OK for us to do it, is absurd.

Try personal responsibility. Try some sort of code of conduct to live by. Try treating people as you would if you were face to face with them.

I think this is a particularly ugly incident. This girl is writing for her student paper, then suddenly has people calling she and her mother idiots, her family attacked, her story strung up as proof journalism school sucks (even though she's not a journalism student, and cap'n doesn't know how student publication operate).

ANYTHING will feed the beast at this point.

The girl wrote about her family doing something idiotic. That is why "suddenly" her family became the focus. That is why this post has almost 200 comments. Thinking you can bounce little Johnny out of a CIVILIAN college--despite him--would be silly enough. They're trying to make the Navy bilge him!

Would you be mollified if the title of this post were changed to "The Truth About Student Papers"?

"Roger Ailes told me early on, you don't need a license to report. You need a license to do hair." Matt Drudge

Over on Blackfive about a month ago I gave This advice to a contrarian British commenter interested in joining the armed forces. It also applies to this midshipman.

Mr. Sparkle said, "I do not dislike the military, on the contrary. I would like a military career."

You'll need to adjust your attitude. I was a plebe three times (RMA, Culver, USNA) took ROTC and spent 20 years as an Air Force officer:

1. Before you sign, get in shape. Run 5 miles in 35 minutes. Swim laps. Get a pistol and learn to use it.

2. In basic training - keep your mouth shut and stay in the middle of the pack. If you are very smart or very fast or very anything, do not let them know.

3. Learn weapon systems. Buy Jane's (e.g., Jane's All the Worlds' Aircraft). Study your weapon systems then your adversary's. FAS.org is useful. Read about tactics. Listen to combat veterans in the bar.

4. Be aggressive but not stupid. Armed forces operate dangerous, expensive machinery which they intend to use again.

5. Improve your communications skills - verbal and written. Be able to state a problem in 25 words, understand and present both sides objectively, draw a conclusion and make a recommendation on one page.

6. Study. Learn at least two foreign languages. (American English does not count.) Get a Masters degree. If you have a Masters, get a PhD. Technical is best. Management is next best.

7. Volunteer for combat at every possible opportunity. If you are alive ten days into your first combat, you will probably make it. Always assume your adversary is the worlds' best until he proves otherwise.

8. As a staff officer there are three rules. Rule 1: Never pass up an opportunity to keep your mouth shut. Rule 2: Never fail to speak up when it is necessary for you to do so. Rule 3: Never confuse Rule 1 with Rule 2.

9. If you disagree with your boss and have the time to discuss it, do so behind a closed door. Persuade and don't argue. If he doesn't bend, there may be something you do not know. When the decision is made, support it 100%.

10. Leadership is giving your subordinates what they need to accomplish the mission - support, resources, persuasion, information, direction, reward, punishment, encouragement and loyalty. Their failures are your responsibility.

Ms. Leppla is entitled to her own opinion. She is NOT, however, entitled to her own facts. That she herself admits to the article as "not factual" and about her feelings, all I can say is:

Why is so much page space and Internet band width being taken up in response to the incoherent and overly wrought emotional whining of an ignorant, narcissistic bint?

For those who think that this is an unfair attack on J-schools, read John Leo's account of how colleges are implementing ethics codes to weed out the idealogically impure in other areas, e.g. social work and education.

The (National Association of Scholars) has just released a six-month study of social work education, examining the ten largest programs at public universities for which information was available. The report, "The Scandal of Social Work," says these programs "have lost sight of the difference between instruction and indoctrination to a scandalous extent. They have, for the most part, adopted an official ideological line, closing off debate on many questions that serious students of public policy would admit to be open to the play of contending viewpoints."

Nine of the ten programs, the NAS reports, require students to accept the ideology-saturated NASW code of ethics to get a degree in social work. The University of Central Florida says students "must comply" with the code of ethics if they wish to remain in school. Failure to accept the code constitutes "academic misconduct" in the University of Michigan program and "can result in disciplinary action" at the University of Minnesota - Twin Cities.

By the sound of her name, she and momma are probably from one of those countries where women forcibly get there vag's sewn shut...maybe that's their problem.

GoNavy2011: It's kind of interesting how "doc" skips over the libs - like me - who found fault with dear Idris' falsehood-filled essay and even bothered to document said falsehoods - as I did.

It's doubly interesting how "doc" ignored the fact that there's a real, live liberal secular humanist feminist on the board (that's me) who *gasp* comes from a military family - and has her first and only son at the Naval Academy.

Why should I take especial note of somebody who agrees with me? My comments are directed at the people - all of them libs, it appears - who express what seems to me to be faux outrage about the negative reaction to Idris Leppla's very immature, poorly researched op-ed. Some of these very same people, in common with most libs in my experience, never miss an opportunity to be nasty about people with whom THEY disagree, such as George Bush, Fox News, Michelle Malkin (if you think I'm nasty, try reading some of the liberal love letters SHE gets). I don't think you participated in the thread about GEN Petraeus a few days ago, but some of our regular lib commenters were calling him a liar and a political hack before he'd ever uttered one word of testimony before the Congress. It would seem, based on this and other incidents, that libs in general have little respect for the military; they demonstrate this variously by demonizing military people or infantilizing them (as Leppla did to her own brother). Those of us who support the war (and, by extension, the military) are portrayed regularly as "chicken hawks".

But I will stipulate: not all libs hate the military, not all libs defend brainless twits like Leppla, not all libs are always wrong about everything.

Now, as to your assertion that biochemists are cuter, smarter and make more money... Then please tell the females to stop throwing their underwear at me and the men to stop dressing and wearing their hair like I do. Oh, and if you happen to know a single female biochemist with a lot of patience and low standards, ask her to e-mail me.

;-)

Tom Shipley: But this thinking that, as long as someone else on the otherside is doing it, it's OK for us to do it, is absurd.

Oh, I agree. I try (with varying degrees of success) to stop myself writing posts along the lines of "Well, your side does it, too!" This is one of the reasons I've been hard on Alberto Gonzales and Larry Craig even while most other conservatives have defended them: that Janet Reno or Barney Frank have done the same or worse in no way excuses what Gonzales and Craig did.

Unfortunately, "you do it, too!" is a standby argument from the playground to the punditry. I've seen libs on this board defend the fundraising practices of the Hilldabeast by citing Tom DeLay or Randy Cunningham. May I point out that some of your fellow lefties in this very thread have trashed Cap'n Ed and the rest of us as political hacks because we're allegedly using poor Idris to distract people from the problems of George Bush and the GOP? It cuts both ways.

Tom Shipley: I think this is a particularly ugly incident. This girl is writing for her student paper, then suddenly has people calling she and her mother idiots, her family attacked, her story strung up as proof journalism school sucks (even though she's not a journalism student, and cap'n doesn't know how student publication operate).

This "girl" is an adult, the same age as "women" and "men" who are serving in the armed forces or hold other responsible jobs in our society. Her "student paper" is on the campus of one of the most prestigious universities in the country, home to one of the best-known j-schools; it's not the one- or two-page mimeographed "student paper" at your child's grammar school.

After "fake but accurate", photoshopped pics, misquoting Alan Greenspan, rigged polls, and Jayson Blair, journalism has a major black eye. I don't think you'll find many people here who have much respect for the trade these days. Frankly, the argument that "she's not a journalism major" smacks of another attempt to shield her (and the paper) from responsibility; it reminds me of the AFP photo a few weeks ago of the Iraqi woman displaying "bullets" fired into her house by US forces. When people pointed out that the photo and story behind it seemed phony, more than one person defended AFP by claiming that they were merely reporting what the woman claimed and had no responsibility to try to verify the truth of what she'd said.

As for Leppla, I stand by what I and others have said: if she doesn't want to get hit, she shouldn't get on the field. Further, the attempt by libs like you to give her a pass for various reasons is transparent and absurd. I would like to know where the line gets drawn: at what point can a person be criticized, even sharply, without hiding behind age or gender or race or some other "victim" identity? How much criticism is OK, and how much is "ugly"?

I will agree that some degree of civility would be better; calling a person a brainless twit (as I have done) isn't the best way to argue at all. Far better to deal with their ideas and leave their obvious mental, moral, ethical, and genetic failings out of the equation. To this extent, you're right and I'll try to do better in the future.

So, this brawl is still going on. Can we pipe in some Irish music and call this "The Quiet Post?"

Tom Shipley: "Journalism is a regular undergraduate degree. Often times colleges with (sic) have seperate (sic) schools for journalism (like Medill at Northwestern) and I'm sure there are post-graduate Journalism programs, but it's usually undergrad."

Correct, but irrelevant. Journalism is NOT a regular undergraduate degree at Barnard, where Idris is a polisci student. Medill does offer an undergraduate degree in journalism. But Columbia (you remember it, the SUBJECT OF THIS POST?) does not. The point (in the unlikely event that anyone still cares), is that the Captain's post was an excoriation of Columbia's J-School, as evidenced principally by Idris Leppla's puerile op-ed piece.

A plain reading of the Captain's post is that he understood (mistakenly, it turns out) Leppla to be a student of said Columbia J-School. So, the further point about Columbia's being a graduate school of journalism is that it constitutes strike three of the Captain's misunderstanding of Leppla's student status.

To summarize the pitch count: 1)Idris was enrolled at Barnard, not Columbia's J-School; 2)she was a polisci student, not a journalism student; 3)she was a senior at Barnard, and therefore WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN a post graduate, enrolled in Columbia's decidedly post graduate J-School.

So, it may well be that i)Columbia's J-School is crap and ii) that Idris Leppla is a flaming, semi-literate, military-hating second generation moonbat. But ii is evidence of i only insofar as Idris and this story were selected for publication and edited (atrociously, it can be argued) as the article bears out on its face; not because she is a J-student at Columbia.

On the other hand, if it is my inference of the Captain's intended characterization of Leppla's status that is incorrect, I apologize in advance to him and to everyone else for the waste of time and will promptly return to old John Wayne movies.

What is really funny about this is liberals get to watch their sons become conservatives over the next 6-10 years. That is what bothers them most. The natural political conversion becomes complete by the 2nd to 3rd year of military service after graduation. Why does it happen? Partly because they become highly responsible individuals who really appreciate the value of rugged individualism. It's a subtle and natural evolution.

Finally, when liberals police their own, then they can be critical of others. Liberals have allowed their own too much leeway in being uncivil, so don't pretend surprise when you get the uncivil grapeshot right back in your own faces. Keep it up and someday the uncivil grapeshot might actually have some mass to it.

When I read this article I was gob-smacked. Here on display was the arrogance of ignorance. She did not know what the purpose of the U.S.N.A. was, she obviously never talked to her brother about his college plans, nowhere along the line - either in conversation with other students or in her polisci coursework did she figure out that the military accademies train military officers.

That is almost unbelievable ignorance. But then she tops it with arrogance by deigning to lecture everyone on what the military academies are for, and trying to process her brother out of Annapolis. To assume that everyone else must be as ignorant as she is arrogance on a collossal scale, to presume that she can get her brother out of a commitment that he willingly undertook is the most collossal brass-bound gall of all time. (I wonder why she thought that she was a party to that contract?)

She needs this criticism as a wake-up call; no, you aren't as smart as you think you are; no, everyone else isn't as dumb as you think they are; and no, no one else thinks you are noble and caring for sticking your nose where it doesn't belong.

And yes, when you published that op-ed you invited comment and criticism; just be glad you learned this before you graduated and got into the real work place.

moseby: By the sound of her name, she and momma are probably from one of those countries where women forcibly get there vag's sewn shut...maybe that's their problem.

Speaking of brainless twits...

My son joined the Army at age 17 as an infantryman, and has served in Korea and (currently) Iraq. I understand my wife's desire to have him home safe and sound (a concern I obviously share). However, she always describes him, and his friends in his company, as "children." He's now 21, and describing these men (ages 18-30) who voluntarily joined and are doing their job, as children, is beyond me.

Tom Shipley: This is what really makes me sick about you liberals. Whenever a lib pipes up and says something especially stupid and indefensible, people like you pipe up and issue diktaks about who is and isn't allowed to commeont on it! Who the hell elected you Stalin? Does the First Amendment only apply to people who agree with you? This seems to be what nearly all liberals believe these days, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

And for your informatin, we *are* using the article as a jumping-off point to criticize the state of journalism today. Because today's journalism *does* suck. It has no redeeming value whatsoever. It does not deserve to exist. If journalism were a tangible entity and it were possible to shoot it, I'd shoot it. We are discussing Idris' article because it is part and parcel of what J-schools teach these days. The editors of the Columbia student newspaper did not choose to publish it by mistake. They choose to publish it because, according to today's teachings, it is canonical journalism. It is what journalism is all about. Hence their intent to make it a four-part series.

Further, Idris is not a child. She is not a teeneager. She is 21 years old and she enjoys all of the legal privileges of adulthood and citizenship that I do. If I publish something idiotic where it is visible on the Internet, I fully expect to be criticized. So why should she be immune? Why do you want to suppress my First Amendment rights? As near as I can tell, you want to do so because you do not have a logical rebuttal to the substantial criticisms levled. So what do you do? Escalate the hysteria of your language. Use the F-word a lot -- that's always how liberals "prove" the truth of what they are saying. Call names and be vaguely threatening towards everyone who doesn't fall in line behind your opinion. Again, all typical liberal tactics for avoiding the substance of the argument and instead trying to just shut up everyone who doesn't toe your line.

Totalitarian wannabe.

Why do you want to suppress my First Amendment rights?

Never called for people's First Amendment rights to be suppressed....

Call names and be vaguely threatening towards everyone who doesn't fall in line behind your opinion.

Never called anyone a name...

If journalism were a tangible entity and it were possible to shoot it, I'd shoot it.

Boy, some would say journalists are a tangible representative of journalism. One was just shot in Oakland, in fact. Maybe take up Anne Coulter's jihad call and blow up the NYTimes?? There are plenty of avenues at your desposal.

ANd right on, Doc. You make some good points. I'm just bothered by the blogosphere picking up on a students work and attacking her and it with such force. I do think students should be cut some slack from those older and wiser. And really don't think people should be attacking her family.

"Posted by coldwarrior415 | September 17, 2007 12:58 PM

Don't know whether or not to engage in gut-busting laughter at this one or not. I'd especially like to see the Annapolis course that teaches Middies "how to lead troops in combat," according to Leppla's article in the Spectator."

Hello, it is part of Marine Week, which is taught to all NROTC students as well, during Second Class summer.

US Naval academy is labeled as a school ranked about #40 something in the US. My alma mater was #43 or so, so I was not missing much in terms of school rank, by getting an NROTC scholarship vs the Academy. I tried, but did not make the academy. My father taught there for 4 years.

As for the young man being embaressed and only calling home a little because of that. No, what he did was about all they get to do during plebe summer.

All that being said, this girl's actions (for she does not have the emotional maturity of a woman) is hilarious. And the young man will either become a young man to be proud of, or be one of the 1/3 that washes out.

Mycroft? Sherlock's older brother?

Since Western Civilization began, women's roles have been minor. The Greeks tossed the over-emotional women off center stage with Antigone and Medea.

We hear a lot of screaming, now, because affirmative action took hold in "wacky-demia." And, the guys who teach, there? Who can tolerate the types that toss Larry Summers? You think they hold the cards on the future?

I think the mistakes made were huge.

About as huge as when women, first given the rights to vote in this country; went nuts with hatchets. And, destroyed not just the rum. But America's right to drink booze.

How long did that last?

Again, one of the lessons taught by Western Civilization; is that when women are screaming and doing their antics; the men GO SILENT. So you don't hear "repercussions."

They happen just the same.

Math, at least, helps keep some of the stuff taught in colleges, viable. But colleges weren't even there when the computer industry broke loose3 in the early 1980's. All the stuff that got done, by kids barely in high school ... speaks volumes.

Heck, there were kids earning more than their fathers. And, colleges and universities were "Johnny come lately" to the IT field.

I wouldn't gloss over the wasted money some people spend on the dumbest credentials.

It seems affirmative action has held back on the maturation process. And, yes. Some strong moms raise infants. Like you point out, Mycroft, a small percentage of males that can't figure out how to grow up.

Anyway, the batting averages for the media seems to be stuck at about Zero. Zero for this college "freebie." And, still stuck on Zero for the New Republic. Which refuses to even step up to the plate, and aologize. How juvenile is that?

Dear GoNavy 2011.

I guess you had an emaculate conception? Because you don't seem to think your son's father played any role in your kid's life. How sad. And, how untrue.

Sure. Conception happens from the bottom, up.

And, yes. Some women, not having chosen a mate, well; are left holding the bag.

It's not to anyone's advantage.

Even when divorces happen. Or marriages, themselves never take place. It's a disadvantage to a young man not to know his father. And, to have lived a life sans his daddy's voice.

Erik Erickson, the psychiatrist who just passed away, was born without ever knowing his dad. Because his mother was left unmarried and pregnant; back around 1907. She doesn't actually marry until young Erik is 4 years old. And, she went to her grave, hiding from her son, the name of the man who fathered him.

And, we have, now, case studies done by Erickson that remain in print. To teach lessons to women who think they can ignore a man's contribution. It's larger than what swims under the microscope.

It's called IDENTITY. And, identity crisis.

Besides, there's a dad in the genetics. Like it or not. And, sometimes, that's the strength giving lads the ability to deal with life and their own manhood's.

I don't even think Hallmark prepares cards to celebrate the date when the bulb baster was inserted.

And, you're not the only family with a kidling in the Army. I got one, too.

aaaaay zoomie

bz

C

Teresa and Tom have got one thing right: I doubt anybody here would walk up to Mr. Leppla at a bar and say "Have one on me, cadet. You don't know me but I'm one of those who put your mom in her place."

The Columbia journalism school is for graduate students only. There are no undergraduate journalism majors at Columbia. The Spectator is an undergraduate newspaper; it is not affiliated in any way with the journalism school and none of its editors are students there.

i look forward to the shock that the ladies leppla will experience when "little brother" comes home on first leave.

they will see a confident young fellow who is quite possibly the most physically fit man that they have never known. he will not be interested in sitting around discussing the nuances of posies or poetry and will quite possibly get out of the house at the soonest opportunity.

think about it. his new home is steam and steel, turbines screaming, gunfire flashing with survival depending on him and his men.

in his new world answers are either right or wrong and he will have to stand by his actions, he can't go down to the dean and beg forgivness of grades and that bs.

he won't have much time for the ladies aid society.

C

Jim says:

"He's now 21, and describing these men (ages 18-30) who voluntarily joined and are doing their job, as children, is beyond me."

It works like this: even if the mother is 80, she will be screaming "My baby!" when her offspring are hurt or in danger, but if the offspring wraps their car around a pole drunk as a pig, she'll be screaming at her husband, if she has one left, "Look what YOUR kid did!"

Nobody could possibly be this stupid. Of course, going there means you are in the Navy. I'm sure the kid knew what it meant. If this is what passes for a college education these day "God help up all".

"Posted by Carol Herman | September 18, 2007 1:12 PM

Mycroft? Sherlock's older brother?"

What do you know, one of the few that has gotten the first reference correct. Now can you give the second reference? That one is tougher, and noone has ever gotten both right.

As for IT going crazy with uncredentialed people in the 1980s - uh no. Got my BSCS in 1981, and I was second generation IT. It is those of us WITH the credentials that straighten out the mess made by the uncredentialed kids.

Tom, first you call us names for the high crime of disagreeing with you, and then you blatantly lie about it. May I quote you from your earlier comments?

"You guys are so fucking defensive..."

"Yeah, you guys will move on just like that. Trash her and her family and move on to the next victim."

"You have no fucking clue. You are just MMQing this from behind your keyboards, getting on your high horse and absolutely murdering this girl and her family."

"You should really, really be ashamed here....It’s fucking disgusting."

And finally...

"And what gets to me too is that this was used to attack Journalism, or the state of Journalism school. Which is just ridiculous. This girl is being used to promote people's anti-journalism agenda... and she's not even a journalist!"

And here we get tot the crux of the matter. Instead of trying to form a substative argument, Tom attacks us for daring to criticize his precious Jornalism. It is not for us mere sheeple to comment on Journalism, obviously. Our role is to passively accept what we're fed. If we comment on it, we are getting uppity. Don't you people realize that the First Amendment only applies to Mainstream Media and was never intended to apply to the little people? Tom has made it clear that he would take away all of our speech rights in a heartbeat if it were in his power to do so.

Now, the rest of you all go away and play in your own sandboxes. Never mind what your betters at Barnard or Columbia or whatever-the-hell-the-school's-name-is are doing. You aren't capable of understanding it anyway.

Okay, Mycroft, a GOOGLE search says "Mycroft" was a business company. Yours?

The other tid-bit I know, is that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote his first Sherlock Holmes story, after reading Poe's original. (Poe is the first writer to tackle this sort of character, in fiction.)

Then, the well ran dry.

So, Doyle's publisher set him up to meet Oscar Wilde. At a dinner party. Where Doyle was very impressed; and then "cast his character" Sherlock, on Oscar Wilde. But as an unmarried man; with a batchelor, he shared his space with ... Which enabled Doyle to have Sherlock as the "mystery," and Watson as the scribe.

That's my best shot.

What other wonders does Mycroft hold?

OKay, obviously IBM and Xerox was finding talent! (I can remember back to the 1960's, and the MTST machines.) I actually understand why Watson, at IBM thought that the "big" computers; that had technicians in "cold rooms," dressed in lab coats; as what you'd keep on seeing.

What I'm trying to say about the 1980's, has more to do with the "shift." And, ya know what? Computers came along and replaced typewriters. While I put my beautiful, and growing old, EXECUTIVE, out in my garage. To use for the typing of envelopes. When I was sending letters.

And, then? I donated it.

But I can tell ya, from personal experience, my son, born in 1979; and getting Nintendo when he was in 2nd grade; became intrigued by WRITING games in BASIC. No courses. And, here? The schools were actually a bit slow in adding computer labs.

Sure. The kids kept up! And, yes, my son did choose to go to Harvey Mudd; because he loved their IT program. And, he says it was easier than the engineering credential. (In your day? You got an engineering credential.)

As to the talents of the kids; every time someone uses a cell phone, they should understand that it was the kids, in Japan, that began "texting." And, using the cell in ways that absolutely amazed their parents.

Perhaps, we think of education as top down. But it works two ways. Especially when societies go through lots of changes.

And, since my son is a programmer; he tells me that messes get created by those who have sloppy habits; and then you gotta fix da' bugs.

I think, medicine, too, is the same. That's why you have to be careful with every physician you go to. Some have reputations far above what they deserve. And, that's just life.

Today, we talk of Drudge being unique. Grabbing an opportunity discarded by Newsweek. Any different than what Xerox did, with what it had invented in their labs?

TO: MOPE

You're describing a dysfunction that's curable as soon as a child grows up and makes the effort. Where he and she discover nobody's perfect. Not even our parents. Let alone the ones that show no grace.

Uh, Cousin Dave, where exactly to I call anyone a name? No where in the quotes you just cited. I curse. I say people are being defensive, I say people don't have clue about the state of J-school, I attack what they've said (pretty harshly) but I don't call anyone a name.

And yes, I get pissed when people attack journalism. I think it's a weak argument made by (mostly) people who don't know enough or are not objective enough to really make a case for a poor standard of journalism today. It's just a crutch for them.

It's easy for people build this story that the media is biased and "bad" so that they have a fall back when the news that is reported doesn't fit with their worldview. It's lazy and dishonest.

I never once say or infer they anyone should not have the right to speak whatever is on their mind.

Tom, you're arguing with people who say things like this: "Because today's journalism *does* suck. It has no redeeming value whatsoever. It does not deserve to exist. If journalism were a tangible entity and it were possible to shoot it, I'd shoot it."

Furthermore, you're arguing with people who say things like that IN SUPPORT OF FREE SPEECH.

If I were the type to quote Scripture, I would advise you to go and read Matthew 7:6.

"Posted by Carol Herman | September 18, 2007 4:51 PM

Okay, Mycroft, a GOOGLE search says "Mycroft" was a business company. Yours?

The other tid-bit I know, is that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote his first Sherlock Holmes story, after reading Poe's original. (Poe is the first writer to tackle this sort of character, in fiction.)

Then, the well ran dry."

Nope, that one is new. The "other" reference is "The Moon is a Harch Mistress" by Robert Heinlein. Mycroft was the sapient computer.

As for the "sloppy" habits. In programming, that comes from the people that were not taught things like structured programming and data structues and similar tools. People that entered the workforce thru channels other than schools.

I had programming courses in High School and a BSCS in college, but not in engineering, in Liberal Arts! (Though the degree has been moved to the engineering school a few years ago.)

Mycroft,

You made me look up "Sapient." Will there ever be a day we'd say this about our computer?

Per my Funk & Wagnalls, Sapient means Wise, sagacious (shrewd and wise); often used ironically.

Always nice to learn something new. Thanks.

Never took to sc.fi. My son and my ex love the stuff. Just shows ya. Same family, different tastes.

It's nice, meeting here, at the end of a dead thread. I'm gonna miss this place when it disappears.

Have to add this one to the list of campus newspapers for an award for editorial excellence:

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=280

"Bush or bin Laden: Who is More Evil?"

This was published in the Central Conmnecticut State campus paper today.

The campus paper here in this community is linked to hundreds of campus newspapers in the States and a few overseas through the internet and they share stories, op-eds and other articles routinely, so that a campus paper that was designed to reach a campus population of 5,000 or 20,000 actually can reach a "campus" population into the hundreds of thousands within minutes.

I suppose the author believes this is a think piece, apparently designed to stiumulate conversation and critical thinking, but once you get into it it is all about Bush, and BDS seems alive and well on our campuses.

Note that the "Recorder" from which this article came is not an "offical" campus newspaper, it is a publication of an campus group, as most campus newspapers are so they can print what they wish without having to pass muster with the campus administration.

But, is this responsible journalism?

As in the case of the Leppla article which spawned this thread, editorial decisions are driven by an editorial agenda in all newspapers. Therein lies the root of faulty campus reporting. When well over 50% of Americans of college age state they get a bulk of their "news" from the Daily Show, and a very small portion actually read non-campus press, what sort of creature have we unleashed?

the columbia spectator is a college run rag, it has nothing to do with columbia's journalism school.

I understand where Idris Leppla and her mother are coming from. USMA, USNA, AFA, CGA and even the MMA are not Kansas anymore Toto. Only a person that has been there for four years knows what it is like. If a person is there for the reasons that were stated, being set for life, money, top tier college, the uniform, or the girls, a separation is in order. If they are in to serve their country to the best of their ability and are willing to accept the training and resources made available to them, they will do well.
As a retired restricted line officer that has served our country for 30 years and have supported three sons in their decisions to attend service academies I feel that it is unconscionable that belligerent comments are being posted about liberals. I post my service record in comparison to any other here.