Captain's Quarters -

Dr. Reidar Visser, a research fellow at the Norwegian Institute of International Affairs who also runs the Iraq website Historiae, observed that the “main problem [with the current strategy] is the heavy emphasis on security instead of creative political initiatives to encourage national reconciliation.”

Dr. Visser's comment seems naive, with all due respect. Political reconciliation can't occur without physical security *and* a perception among the rebels that al-Qaeda (and the Mahdi Army) are losing the fight. Now that Petraeus has put in place an aggressive strategy, we are seeing the beginnings of "creative initiatives to encourage national reconciliation," as our host himself has pointed out on several occasions. How else would Dr. Visser characterize the various "awakening" movements, the growing cooperation between the central government and the tribes of Anbar, or Maliki's apparent outmaneuvering of al-Sadr?

One thing these ivory tower types seem to forget is that the Iraqi leadership is learning how to function in a democratic system, after decades of rule by a tyrant. That takes time and a more stable security environment, the latter of which is what Petraeus is trying to create.

From at least the time of the Shah, the Iranians have sought hegemony in the Persian Gulf. The Arab states on the Persian Gulf fear Iranian hegemony.

A very large proportion of Europe's and Japan's oil supply comes from the Persian Gulf, unlike the U.S. oil supply. The Europeans have a direct and vested interest in seeing pro-Western stability in the Persian Gulf and in Iraq, and it does have a lot to do with oil.

Other commentators who have claimed that the Iranians are only acting defensively in the region haven't been paying attention. If we fail to stabilize Iraq, the economies of Europe and Japan are at risk.

These analysts do not represent European governments or popular sentiment. However, they may have influence in leading both to viewing the situation in more practical terms, which can only help in gaining assistance for Iraqi stability.

"Practical" - yes, quite. Anytime you can get somebody bigger and stronger to do the dangerous stuff for you, and at the same time allow you to cover yourself by telling everyone else what shits they are, well... it doesn't get much more practical than that, does it?!

And thanks for all that help with Iraq stability. It was just invaluable.

We lead, they follow. What other choice do they have?

Would be nice if Germany and the rest would contribute more than anti-American sentiment on these issues. Do we really want to save them again? Unfortunately, yes.

Anthony says it best - if people are not secure they do not have the luxury, yes luxury, to deal with representative government, free markets, etc. Security, then food.

Ever wonder why dictatorships have poor economies? No one is safe; property is not safe; life is not safe. Since this is Maslow's theory, you'd think that academia would know this but then again,..... groupthink.

It makes perfect sense for the Europeans to fear a US retreat in Iraq.

It also makes me wonder when they will stop their free ride on US blood in staying that course. Even the involvement in Afghanistan is limited and equivocal by Germany. They fly recce missions but delayed releasing intel that had Taliban data a minimum of four hours. This practice may have been discontinued.

If they keep the oil supply from Iraq working for them, how will they compensate the US and those who gave their all?

Did anyone ever say they wanted the Soviets to stay in Afghanistan?

Did anyone (besides American hawks, that is) ever say they wanted us to stay in Vietnam until it is "stabilized?"

This is truly weird.

Randall, the most weird is that it's true.

While it may astonish you that rational, more or less liberal Europeans think this way, they do.

As to Vietnam, many South Vietnamese wanted us to stay even before we left. Their experience with the VC wasn't especially benign. And the millions exiled and killed in Vietnam and Cambodia after we left had second thoughts, if ever they wanted us gone in the first place.

If you can't see the difference between the Russian presence in Afghanistan and the American, there is no sense arguing with you on this.

The main problem with the Euros is, as usual, that they are perfectly glad to see Americans do the paying, fighting and dying.

Who do you think Europe depends on to keep the Hormuz Straits open so they can run their factories and gas their cars? Who will they turn to for help if nuclear weapons get in the hands of terrorists? Or if Iran dominates Iraq and threatens the other Gulf states?

Here's a hint: It won't be China or Russia.

"One German analyst argues that his nation has to begin using its influence to support Iraqi nationalism and security."

Pity they couldn't use it to, oh, say, stop building bunkers and chemical plants for Saddam...

So, like a lot of others here, the message I took away from all this is: "Yes, we need you to stay in Iraq. But we're still going to run you into the ground for doing it, and we're still going to work to undermine your mission every chance we get. Because, you see, our image is more important then your lives."

The main problem with the Euros is, as usual, that they are perfectly glad to see Americans do the paying, fighting and dying.

Who do you think Europe depends on to keep the Hormuz Straits open so they can run their factories and gas their cars? Who will they turn to for help if nuclear weapons get in the hands of terrorists? Or if Iran dominates Iraq and threatens the other Gulf states?

Here's a hint: It won't be China or Russia.

Dave is correct. When some head of state dials 911, the phone rings over here.

Question to the local libs: Given that there is evidence that our great pals in Europe don't approve of a US withdrawl from Iraq/Afghanistan, does that mean leaving doesn't pass the international test?

Time to get real. Sure, the press got us to walk away from Vietnam. But we are not IN Vietnam. And, it's the presstitutes that are wobblig around on their last legs.

Can we walk away from Maliki?

Maliki, to our President Bush, is as "intimate" as Bill is to Hill.

TRANSLATION: The marriage ended long ago.

Will there always be appearances?

Well, it's not hard to "keep up appearances," when your venue's the fish wraps.

Here's the skinny: Maliki holds 40%.

At the "start of the race," Maliki got hot enough to bypass the American picks: Chalabi and Allawi.

Okey dokey.

SO the learning curve kicked in.

Bush, which will be the subject for future historians to discuss; ripped up all former plans; and just went 's-l-o-w.' He decided it's best to "late nature take its toll."

And, Maliki mishandled the deck of cards. While the Sunnis were also dumber than rocks.

Those now alive to reconsider, however, keep seeing the Americans, able to live on bases with electricity, McDonald's. And, complete computer access. This war is NOT the same war as was fought by our troops during WW2. Not in europe. And, not in the malaria infested swamps of the Pacific.

Hello.

We picked a better battlefield.

And, the arabs aren't dumb as rocks.

They just need to see POWERS, demonstrated.

And, as I said, Bush was 's-l-o-w." For his own reasons.

But early on I read that the Kurd's became America's fast friends. They cleaned up their areas. They do not "do" terror. And, they are rebuilding. Amazingly so.

Kurds also want NO PART of arabs! They love their American friendships. So, in the worst case scenarios, which have not come to pass; American bases can stay for 100 years, or longer, in the part of Irak known as Kurdistan.

So far? No moving trucks are switching our bases from here. To there. And, we're building a huge embassy in Baghdad. That has arabs drooling.

Well, what about the Shi'a?

Here, all you need to know is that Saddam dumped on the Shi'a. They were all at the bottom of the barrel. When America came along; vacated Saddam and gave the sheer numbers of the Shi'a a better position. WHich Maliki SHIT away. He shit this away by playing with the midet in iran, and the giraffe in syria.

WHile there are no "inbeds" in ISRAEL! Take it from me, the journalists in Israel have been hung out to dry, as well. And, whatever is going down on the ground is going on without a bunch of commie-reporters around to SNAFU the works.

You are on your own.

It's true, we get leftiods here, because we're nice. And, it's not like plowing thru the bullshit produced by the media. Or Huffpo. Or the Koz clowns.

And, the Kurds are developing relationships with the SUNNI!

Oh, boy, is that part of the future for Irak! Not Maliki pocketing the whole country;

Why not? There are 3 factions in Irak. And, with the stabilization of the SUNNI (triangle), etc., the Kurds are very happy to throw in their lot with them.

OUT OF THE PICTURE? Not US.

Try the Shi'a. Who have been there, before.

The other thing about arabs, once they get their clocks cleaned. Tend to be "appeasement neighbors." And, they're the ones, these days, with some of the problems.

Turkey, it seems, just got cut one, too. Some coinage produced by the EU hasn't got Turkey on its map.

This leaves Uncle Sam in a better position than ever.

Leaving Irak? What did you think you were on? A tour?

I used to respect Germany as a NATO ally. Not anymore... they reunited in the face of the collapse of the USSR, and I guess they must think it was peace-lovin' that did it, so now they don't need us. I suspect many know better, but just like so many conservatives in the US, they don't go around talking about it a lot, because they need their jobs, they want to be popular, etc.

This sounds very much like the US where the analysts on TV favor staying in Iraq.

I'm surprised that people here at CQ think euro analysts are a credible source of info.

I was in the US Army stationed in Germany during the oil embargo in 1973. In the states there were gas lines, in Europe there was no heat that winter, I slept in a down sleeping bag all winter and there was not hot water for showers.

Maybe we ought to allow the Europeans a reminder of just how dependent they are on gulf oil again.

The threats arriving in Europe today are considerably more than a lack of oil this winter. Putin will no doubt let things cool off a few times simply to prove that he can.

The high Euro means that fewer products will be exported. More people will have to be supported by welfare systems that are already overwhelmed.

Changes in attitude are "a comin". The about face of the French is just the start of what may become an American love fest.

David,

I understand perfectly well why America's experience in Iraq is different from the USSR's in Afghanistan.

My rhetorical question intended to draw attention to the fact that Europe - contrary to it belabored and ceaseless comparisons to the USSR's and our own "Vietnam" - seems to actually recognize it as well.

Maybe it's not weird. Maybe the primadonna always has a schizophrenic relationship with her bodyguard.

In the u.k we have'nt been calling for american's immediate withdrawal with out iraqi security.
This is the same with our troops in the south.
Just because we don't agree with bush,it does not mean we agree with democrat's.
Your domestic politic's are irrelevent.
Comments like'save them again' and 'perfectly glad to see americans do the paying fighting and dying' illustrates why the u.s is isolated.
Why should we sacrifice our children to help a country that doesn't recognise other countries losses and opinion?

Britain has been an important ally for the U.S. for a century. The same holds true for most nations of the English-speaking world. I think most Americans understand and appreciate that.

We also have more fickle allies, such as the French and Germans. Tweaking the superpower seems to delight them. Yet fundamentally, we remain friends.

We all sacrifice our children in common cause fighting a darkness far worse than any petty bickering among us, a darkness that consigns human beings to enslavement and eventual death in a totalitarian gulag. We refuse to learn the lessons of history, and foolishly exalt our differences and our hurt feelings.

As long as we have the will to fight evil, we will win. The idea of America is persistence against long odds, and a shining light in the darkness.

Gee the dhimmirats in this country are way to the left of their socialist colleagues in Europe, sharing the boat only with the hardline commies in China and Russia, and the terrorists in Iran and Syria. That is a sure way for the dumbocrats to convince the average voter that they can be trusted in national security matters.