Captain's Quarters -

At this point, I think the only strategy left for The New Republic is to reposition itself as a competitor to The Onion and The Daily Show. They wouldn't have to change the way they operate, just buy up a recently-failed weekly and become The New New Republic (now incorporating the Weekly World News.)

C'mon Franklin, bite the bullet and get it over with. Self-inflicted purgatory is almost as stupid as publishing articles you haven't researched. I'm sure at least a few dozen TNR readers will understand and maintain their subscription.

"He provides PDFs of the documents as support as well. Beauchamp admitted to investigators that he made up most of the stories, including the most disturbing tale of troops harassing a disfigured woman, as well as running over dogs in armored personnel carriers."

If Beauchamp had told the Army these things did happen, he would be court marshaled with a bad conduct discharge. As it is, he gets maybe an article 15 and some counseling. Duh..

TNR is only the tip of the iceberg of the MSM when it comes to shoddy reporting practices. In Iraq as well as other events. They ran with it because it fit their stale narrative of our troops. TNR would have to have some credibility left in order to lose it. They and most of the MSM has none. The best evidence of that is the coverage or lack thereof regarding the decreasing death toll in Iraq and the other positive things happening. They have been married to defeat ala Harry Reid for a long time. They want to lose a war due to their hatred of one man. The most sickening part is that it's one thing to wish for your own country to lose a war, it's quite another to actively help the other side. Which is exactly what TNR and the rest of the lib media have done by providing great P.R. for the insurgents while doing everything they can to discredit ours.

After reading the documents provided by Drudge the one thing that stands out is that Beauchamp refuses to either confirm or deny his stories. What he says is that he won't comment on them at all.

He still remains a moral coward. And I bet he is planning a book.

TNR is a left wing rag.

People who waste their time with comic books like TNR don't want the truth, they want validation of their absurd fantasies.

Pvt. Beauchump should be elevated to editor in chief.

Whippoorwill,

What he reported was more than likely not enough to get him sent to a CM. However, Lying to investigators is a guaranteed CM. His buddies couldn't back up his stories either. He ended up with a slap on the wrist. Yet you're still standing by the story apparently because Beauchamp was lying about the stories being false to save his butt? And you would know this how? At least he had the brains to recant his fables. To bad TNR can't and their apologists can't say the same.

I don't understand Foer. All he had to do was say he made a mistake, apologize, take some flack for it, and keep on with business. Instead he started channeling Richard Nixon and did himself and TNR far more harm than any of his critics possibly could have.

Wippoorwill sounds like the inquisitor in "The Name of the Rose."

If Beauchamp stuck to his story then Wippoorwill would claim the soldiers are "possessed by the Devil." But since Beauchamp recanted he must have been telling the truth and the troops are indeed "possessed by the Devil."

His motto is heads I win, tales you lose.

It's almost as if Scott is some kind of phony.

And wouldn't the patriotic thing to do be to let the world know that these tales of atrocities committed by American soldiers are false? I mean, Foer and Scoblic are patriotic, right?

Wonder if Scott qualifies as a 'phony soldier'?

Alex

"What he reported was more than likely not enough to get him sent to a CM. However, Lying to investigators is a guaranteed CM. "

I think Beauchamp was smart enough to know the Army had no interest in a CM-- they just wanted the story to go away.

"Yet you're still standing by the story apparently because Beauchamp was lying about the stories being false to save his butt? And you would know this how?"

I'm not "standing" by his story. I think this has been a non-story from the beginning. If I had to guess, I'd say some of what he said was true with some embellishment. My point is that while Scott is on active duty he's not going to honestly tell his side of the story. I'm an Army vet and sounds like you may be too, so you should know how things like this work.

Whippoorwill:
"If I had to guess, I'd say some of what he said was true with some embellishment."

Well, yes. Scott is/was in Iraq. Aside from that?

rbj

"Well, yes. Scott is/was in Iraq. Aside from that?"

If you want to smear TNR, that's fine, I don't much care for them either, rbj.

However, Scott Beauchamp is putting his life on the line everyday for this country and in my world that trumps his alleged "fabulism" . Until you walk your sorry behind to where he's at, you should show more respect, and frankly STFU.

>>I'm not "standing" by his story. I think this has been a non-story from the beginning. If I had to guess, I'd say some of what he said was true with some embellishment.>>

Wait, a guy fabricating crimes committed by US soldiers in an internationally read magazine is a non-story? Are you for real?

How's this for embellishment? W-will is a child molesting slave owner who masturbates to infants being raped by prison gangs, oh, and he breathes oxygen. It's partially true, right? I mean, you do inhale O2, right?

Whippoorwill,

"My point is that while Scott is on active duty he's not going to honestly tell his side of the story"

Sorry, I disagree. (BTW, You were close but I am a Marine) The CID guys in this case would have had to investigated it. If they are doing that they would have more than likely given anyone in his PLT immunity to get the real story. There was an investigation that showed his fables were without merit. Here's what you're overlooking. 1) The story about harrasing the girl with the disfugured face was changed from Iraq to Kuwait to never even happening. Again, this is not a CM offense even if true. 2) His story about running over dogs with a Bradley or APC smelled from the beginning due to the fact that it increased their chances of hitting an eddy. There isn't a crew in the world that's going to put up with that. Again, if it did happen it's still not an offense great enough to get a dishonorable for. Same with the graveyard story, in this case it wasn't even him that did the act, just something he said he witnessed, again not enough to get PFC Beauchamp booted. Once he realized the jig was up there was no reason for him to lie to investigators. There was however reason to come clean because he knew if he lied then he was going to be CM'd.

"I think this has been a non-story from the beginning." - whippoorwill

Make-believe news from a supposedly reputable publication is a non-story (not to mention from a publication who's been caught with their pants down before)? Well, I guess that has a certain bizarro logic to it.

Chickenhawk argument alert:

>>Until you walk your sorry behind to where he's at, you should show more respect, and frankly STFU.

W-will, I hope cops come into your home, plant false evidence and then when you're on trial, I hope the judge sends you to prison for life citing the fact that since you're not a cop you can't criticize a cop's behavior.

Sorry whippoorwill not gonna do it. Scott made some serious charges and now backs down from them. He's a liar and his lies would give aid & comfort to the enemy as propaganda that US soldiers were bad people.

And do not tell me to STFU. Last I heard this is a free country.

Alex

You seem like a thoughtful and honorable person, and since you are currently in the military, I will accept your analysis over mine. But I still want to hear Scott give his side after he's discharged.

I agree that the items Scott claimed to have done would not merit a CM, but when I was in, telling it to the press would likely get you in a whole lot a trouble, if not a BCD.

--------------------------------------------------

And ABC=Z you are a first rate idiot, and other things as well.

Wippoorwill,

"However, Scott Beauchamp is putting his life on the line everyday for this country and in my world that trumps his alleged "fabulism" . Until you walk your sorry behind to where he's at, you should show more respect, and frankly STFU."

Although not directed at me I need to respond. I've been there twice. That what makes his little tales even worse. He soiled the honor of his fellow soldiers. If those things really did happen then he had a duty to report them and didn't. I gurandamntee you that if I saw one of my fellow Marines wearing the skull of a child I would have "counseled" that Marine on his own skull. Same holds true if anyone risked my life to run over a friggen dog while driving down some Iraqi street. There's no way anyone let that happen more than once as he claimed, period.

That's the point you're missing and why his story mattered. Yes we are all human and all prone to mistakes and errors in judgement. If any of those things were true there was never any point in writing about it for a national magazine. Since as you put it it's a "non story". It should have been handled at squad level. That's why I think his stories were b.s. There isn't anyone I have ever served with that would have out up with that crap. Our jobs are hard enough without some Rather wannabe doing stupid things.

He wanted to be the next Hemmingway, he's full of shiite and he got caught. TNR and their apologists simply can't admit they were had. They just look more foolish by the minute in their refusal to do so.

>>And ABC=Z you are a first rate idiot, and other things as well.

That's all you got? Pretty pathetic, dude. But wait, you can't criticize me!! You've never walked in my shoes..... Why, you're a ChickenABC=Z!

Wow, Drudge sure got rid of that link mighty fast. Wonder if that TNR call transcript had anything to do with it. How the heck did he get a copy of that?

"However, Scott Beauchamp is putting his life on the line everyday for this country" - Whipporwill

We were better off when Scotty was making up stories for his High School paper. We don't need Scott to "put his life on the line", not when he's feeding into enemy propaganda, which puts other people's lives on the line.

Meanwhile, heroes like LT Murphy here are awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously, and the "paper of record" in his home state (NY Times), can't even bother to print an article about him:
http://www.navy.mil/moh/mpmurphy/pg.html

Pvt. Beuchamp should hang his head in shame for how he disgraced himself.

"Nixonian stonewalling", eh? I think some of our younger readers might mot recall how Dick stonewalled.

How about using a more recent example of stonewalling, such as Bill Clinton assuring us that he never had sexual relations with that woman, and then tried to invent all sorts of bizarro legal challenges to try to slow down the investigation? He even made up some crazy name for "protecting" the Secret Service Agents who were privy to his adultery.

Commentary and copies of the docs are all over the blogs...not a way in hell someone can stuff this genie back in the bottle.

"However, Scott Beauchamp is putting his life on the line everyday for this country and in my world that trumps his alleged 'fabulism'. Until you walk your sorry behind to where he's at, you should show more respect, and frankly STFU."
***********************************************
I'm a civilian with no military experience, and I have no respect for Beauchamp at all.

By his own admission he joined the military to be a writer, and while taking this pathetic journey of self-aggrandizement he smeared his comrades, his army, and his country in a time of war.

He made defeat more likely by adding to the steady drip of stories that have sapped the public of its will to fight. He provided aid and comfort to the enemy.

And he's a horrible, no-talent writer to boot, blathering about "innocent students rendered featherless by dark rivets of experience" and "unique soulpatterns of mindthoughts."

You can get all smarmy and melodramatic about him "putting his life on the line for his country," but the reality is he's an amoral slug who doesn't care what damage he does in his so-called climb to the top. He serves his country the same way Sean Penn does.

Hey, look at me! I just criticized a soldier even though I've never been in the military!

I'm a baaaaaaaaad chicken hawk.

"Commentary and copies of the docs are all over the blogs...not a way in hell someone can stuff this genie back in the bottle." - daytrader

Totally agree, it's got some legs now regardless. I'm just curious why Drudge didn't keep this on his front page for a bit longer. In spite of whippoorwill's "nothing to see here" attitude, this news seems worthy to me. TNR needs to be shamed into addressing this story and taking responsibility for what appears to be incredibly reckless behavior for a publisher.

Cain

"TNR needs to be shamed into addressing this story and taking responsibility for what appears to be incredibly reckless behavior for a publisher."

At least you honest to what this is really about, Cain-- another liberal MSM scalp. In this case, I'll wish you luck.

As I said earlier, I care nothing for TNR, they should have folded their tent after the Glass affair.

Meanwhile, heroes like LT Murphy here are awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously, and the "paper of record" in his home state (NY Times), can't even bother to print an article about him:

w-will:

Hiding behind Scott Beauchamp's uniform (or your own) and telling civilians to STFU is a sure sign of someone lacking any other argument. Unless you condone Beauchamp/McBeth-style slander...well, do you?

I'll show my respect to the troopers who don't slander their comrades for their own aggrandizement (and thereby provide fodder for al-Jazeera) and have the moral courage to stand by their conduct.

Are you sure this isn't just a hoax? Captain Ed, don't get too far out on this. I think Drudge was had. It's nowhere to be found on his site, anyway.

furious

Either way Beauchamp screwed up and I sure his superiors have provided whatever punishment they believe he deserves.

However, I don't believe he deserves the kind of viciousness he's been receiving from right wingers. After all, he's isn't a twelve year old kid needing insurance, or anything like that.

Why don't you accept that the army has dealt with Scott in their own way? I mean, he's still on duty, so that must mean they think he's a good soldier, albeit one who screwed up.

Like I said, this isn't really about Beauchamp, It's about the right wing war on the "liburl" MSM and adding another scalp to put next to Dan Rather's.

In this case, in order to get what they want, Scott B. must be destroyed. Since I don't think his crimes warrant such personal destruction, I will deploy the STFU moniker when appropriate, with no apologies.

'Are you sure this isn't just a hoax? Captain Ed, don't get too far out on this. I think Drudge was had. It's nowhere to be found on his site, anyway."

Way too late for that.

"At least you honest to what this is really about, Cain-- another liberal MSM scalp. In this case, I'll wish you luck." - whippoorwill

It is important to hold powerful media outlets to account for reckless and dishonest behavior; particularly when that behavior results in the weakening of our military and our country and provides aid and comfort to our terrorist enemies.

If you really believe this is about getting a "liberal MSM scalp" then you are truly a fool. You'd be more comfortable skipping on over to the usual fever swamps like KOS, DU, or C&L where a term like "STFU" passes as an effective debating tool with the kids.

If this is a hoax shouldn't Drudge come right out and admit that he was had before it grows more legs? Seems to me he owes it to his readers plus the TNR to nip this in the bud so to speak.
And what is wrong with using this story to gain another MSM scalp? The MSM scalps need to be displayed until the MSM gets the message that they owe the truth in whatever information they feed the public. Otherwise there will be another scalp hanging from a coup stick.

>>I will deploy the STFU moniker when appropriate, with no apologies.

Wow, dude, you've got cast-iron balls. I-I-I'm shaking at my keyboard.

Hey, W-will, this is about a major media source completely fabricating a story. I guess if Fox News was caught red-handed, why I'm sure you'd be so lenient, right? Right? Right?

People are reacting to the apparent pulling of the docs as maybe fakes

Consider this from over at BlackFive milblog

Updates 2: Getting some email that the docs are forgeries. I doubt it. I read them. And I had seen the transcripts weeks ago.

The military has a lot of people in the area who have seen the source docs here. They held their info until the stuff came out.

Other milblogs are indirectly confirming that the released docs match their inside knowledge of the affair.

If it's a fake then someone sure matched it up to independent confirmation from those who have put eyes on the documents at the scene.

Not a one of those who have seen the originals and held the info till this happened have claimed any variation from their personal knowledge that would make the existence of a fake likely so we will see how this shakes out over time.

"after all he isn't a 12 year old kid needing insurance, or anything like that" What kind of argument is that? Sounds like a dig pure and simple. See Captain Ed's story of yesterday "Senate Picks Pork Over Kids" or today's story "Earmarks or Ear Infections?"

cain

"It is important to hold powerful media outlets to account for reckless and dishonest behavior; particularly when that behavior results in the weakening of our military and our country and provides aid and comfort to our terrorist enemies."

How noble of you, cain. Funny I never see you "holding to account" Fox News, Wash Times, or as it is beginning to look like, Drudge, on this possibly emerging phony story.

It is absurd to suggest, with all the horror stories that have come out of the Iraq war, that Scott's alleged escapades and it's printing in a mag is providing aid and comfort to our terrorist enemies.

"If you really believe this is about getting a "liberal MSM scalp" then you are truly a fool. You'd be more comfortable skipping on over to the usual fever swamps like KOS, DU, or C&L where a term like "STFU" passes as an effective debating tool with the kids."

I don't post at KOS or C&L because I can't have fun debates like this one. And I don't agree with DU ideology in the least. Of course, you could ask ED to ban me if you don't like what I have to say.

As for my use once of the STFU, I apologize if I offended your delicate sensibilities. Is there a fainting couch nearby where you can recover?

I doubt Drudge fell victim to a hoax, but he did pull the story and links to the documents.

Still, I wonder how The New Republic will spin this? They've had a long time to work on this, and so far it looks like the hoax's on them.

And it looks like they were very willing accomplices in being fooled by Beauchamp.

It's like the Texas Air National Guard letters. Even it they were forgeries, as liberal commentators explained, they illustrated a greater truth.
http://strongasanoxandnearlyassmart.blogspot.com/2007/10/how-does-new-republic-spin-this.html

He serves his country the same way Sean Penn does. Hey, look at me! I just criticized a soldier even though I've never been in the military!

And you criticized an actor--can you do that if you don't hold a SAG card? Chickenthespian!

W-Will,

I'm in the Army and commanded a company in OIF-1. Beauchamp is likely still in, not b/c he is a "good soldier," but b/c he hasn't done anything to merit a discharge in a time of war/deployment. I'm glad he joined, but wish he could tell what's happening truthfully.

Having been to Iraq myself, with many friends still there, our biggest frustration is not with the Administration, or even the folks in Congress; it has been with reporting that has been so misleading it borders on treasonous. What I've seen in the media in no way matches the country I served in.

And the main problem is that stories like Beauchamp's get all the attention(proven or not), but not the multitude of other stories that might actually boost public confidence in the mission.

Foer playing the wife card is especially damning. Its absolutely loopy that they would present this guy as just another source when his wife worked for TNR- that why stories have disclaimers, just in case there do end up being conflicts of interest that later surface. And then to try to use it as leverage to save their flailing cred, absolutely pathetic and journalistically corrupt. You could almost look at it as an implicit threat (i'm quite positive if this was a story about a conservative that point wouldnt be missed).

One small point (and i may be wrong on it)- I believe the point that TNR claimed Beauchamp was being kept from speaking out by the military, he was under orders not to talk to the media until the investigation was concluded (which is standard procedure). If thats indeed the case, they werent knowingly lying about his censorship. They were simply misconstruing army procedure at best, spinning it intentionally at worse (which seems a reasonable assumption given their behavior). Not the most honest thing in the world, but not an outright lie either. The fact that they never clarified this after Beauchamp was allowed to speak out (which was no more than a week later if i recall) is further journalistic sinning- to let the record stand for this long without any attempt at correct, specifically AFTER the editors themselves talked to him, is the journalistic mortal sin of this story. You have to correct your mistakes.

rd

""after all he isn't a 12 year old kid needing insurance, or anything like that" What kind of argument is that? Sounds like a dig pure and simple. See Captain Ed's story of yesterday "Senate Picks Pork Over Kids" or today's story "Earmarks or Ear Infections?"

I believe Ed supported the Bush veto on S-Chip program. If I am wrong about this, or, if he's changed his stance, then I will certainly offer my apologies for the "dig". It will be coming up for a vote again soon and I hope Ed and all republicans will support it. We can argue about ideology over adults, not kids.

Ah whippoorwill, take it easy. No offense taken when you use STFU. It makes anyone who uses it look like they've nowhere left to go with their argument; much like you find yourself now on this thread. By all means, continue to show your ass to the world. I don't think Ed will mind as long as you stay relatively civil.

whiporwill, I've put my life on the line many a time. 22 years in the Army, the last years spending three tours in Iraq.
Scott Beauchamp is a soldier, and should be respected for that.
He's also a liar, and he intentionally disparaged his fellow soldiers. He should not be respected for that. Any soldier, even Scott Beauchamp (who hopefully has done some introspection and will be a better person for this episode), will understand that saying STFU to an American is the sign of a Lefty. Lefties believe in censorship, soldiers believe in the Constitution.

Beauchamp hasn't been court martialled because his pathetic attempts at writing haven't caused the Army any danger -- he revealed no secrets that compromised military actions -- and the harm that he caused in the public sphere has been well handled by the alternate media.

In other words, he has been ripped apart so completely he looks like a prairie dog after a hawk is done with it.

Whipporwill, using the chickenhawk argument is so lame that you should get an honorary "Beauchamp" award for trying it. Leave the sophomoric writing in the trash bin, where it belongs, with the remains of TNR's reputation and Beauchamp's writing career.

Whipoorwill said--

--Scott Beauchamp is putting his life on the line everyday for this country and in my world that trumps his alleged "fabulism" . Until you walk your sorry behind to where he's at, you should show more respect, and frankly STFU.--

Sorry Whip.. one of the things that makes me admire our military, besides putting their lives on the line, is their commitment to truth and reality. After all, what job can be done if the base facts are made up? What success can be had based on nonfactual facts?

Telling the truth is a base value of an AMerican soldier. IT's why there are so few courtmartials and so few war crimes on our side.. most of our guys understand basic moral decency ...

Beauchamp has already said that the reason he enlisted was so that he could gain credibility for his future antiwar antiBush antiAmerican writings.

I cannot and do not respect that, and his 'service' is suspect from the very beginning, by his own admission.

Beachump is the one who should STFU, and maybe you.

Cool your heels, pardners.

I don't want to "fact-check" some "ass" and show that its better to be accurate than fast, but Kathryn-Jean Lopez seems to suggest caution (link).

On a side note: this is one of those inside-story blog issues that should make even committed believers of the internet wonder what the hell all this is for. This isn't a disinterested search for accuracy so much as oneupmanship for e-wonks. More than one blog, its it zeal to defend or decry TNR, screwed up some facts on the issue.

Cable TV has its Paris Hiltons and Lindsay Lohans. We get Scott Beauchamp. I think cable TV has one over us.

DU

Russ

"I'm glad he joined, but wish he could tell what's happening truthfully."

I agree with you on this.

"Having been to Iraq myself, with many friends still there, our biggest frustration is not with the Administration, or even the folks in Congress; it has been with reporting that has been so misleading it borders on treasonous. What I've seen in the media in no way matches the country Iserved in."

There is no doubt, Russ that the media likes to cover bad things happening, the old adage "if it bleeds it leads" or something like that.
There is not a single doubt in my mind that our military has done and is doing infinitely more good on the ground every day in Iraq. I personally
don't require a news piece to convince me of that.

I'm sorry, but I just can't argue with any soldier about what they are experiencing on the ground in Iraq. I'm just another dumbass with a computer in a safe environment. I am going to take you at your word because I think it's good. And I hope all this mess about Iraq turns out for the better for all involved.
And thank you for what your doing Russ.

The first rule on using a gun is don't shoot yourself in the foot.

And, if you've got a rifle, the first rule is, to be aware that you can be kicked off your feet, after you fire; because of the rebound.

Did TNR not expect this?

Ah, the absolute pleasure I have seeing Drudge just smack another homerun right out'da the park! He's the Babe Ruth of the Internet!

And, like all unintended consquences, I'm willing to give odds, Franklin Foer didn't even see this one coming.

Ah. And, the other irony. Millions are seeing this story unfolding, and not one dead tree had to be felled.

I adore Matt Drudge!

And, you, too, Captain Ed.

Okay, Tom, at 1:28. I can agree with what you have to say. Beauchamp wants to write a book. He wants the money from a publisher, first, though, huh?

Unlike porn, I don't think Beauchamp's "take" will be any more interesting than Mary Mapes mud slinging at C-BS. She had a grudge. Whatever she says, she refuses to accept responsibility.

We need another book on buck passing? For TNR, they've already got shattered glass.

Now? I'd like to see the size of Franklin Foer's bonus check at Christmas. Ya think Santa Claus is gonna be nice? Or does he get stuck with a lump of coal?

"Scott Beauchamp is putting his life on the line everyday for this country and in my world that trumps his alleged "fabulism" . Until you walk your sorry behind to where he's at, you should show more respect, and frankly STFU.--"

This is my argument and I stand by it 110%. You've got your liberal saying a cuss word, OMG, run with it guy's. Ought to keep you busy for awhile. And when your tired of that, maybe you can jump on this Drudge guy posting phony docs. Somewhere Rather is smiling.
uh oh a flock of Chickenhawks, I got to go afore they peck me to death.

The Mechanical Eye compares the story of a soldier fabricating atrocities to the interest shown in Hollywood starlets and their personal problems, which is a conclusion that can be reached only by someone who considers military atrocities on the same scale as missing underwear.

I do not consider such atrocities so lightly. These were serious accusations that implied that our troops regularly engaged in atrocities.

Their revelation as total fabrications is a glorious win for my country and my military. I celebrate today because this liar and his enablers are revealed, exposed, and unable to perpetuate this fraud.

If this had not been exposed, we might be inflicted with "Senator Beauchamp" someday, just as we are saddled with "Senator Kerry." Think about that for a while.

Day trader, so good to see you here.

As to the "eyes" who have seen the docs; when I saw Drudge this morning, he just said the "story was developing."

Then, I read one angle that it was TNR, using Drudge, were trying to "control" this story, oddly enough.

How? Perhaps by putting it out there; where they then get talked about for awhihle. And, then the story/stories die, again.

Beauchamp, too, might have contacted Drudge.

Here? The heat would be on TNR. And, Beauchamp would be the guy in the angry suit.

Unlike C-BS, the story's not fake.

And, so far? We don't know who did what to whom. But the game of CLUE has started in earnest.

Who has the worst position at the table?

Not the military.

Not military "bloggers" ...

And, then you get two suspects. Beauchamp is either in better or worse shape, than Franklin Foer.

How'd these stories get written?

Hmm? Perhaps? There is a book somewhere? Or as Reagan used to say, "with all this horseshit there must be a pony, inside."

Doesn't it seem that for the Internet this story reaches altitude better than others?

My other question. Miliary men follow orders. They follow them when the generals are good. And, when they are bad.

If history has a single example of how it rectifies things; for instance. Ulysses S. Grant's reputation grew. While other generals? Their's shrank.

Up ahead? I think Bush will be held responsible for the bad decisions that have so many Americans feeling terrible about Irak. It's not as if in all this time, anyone got to like a saud, or a sunni, or even a kurd.

Bush will be responsible for getting mixed up with these dogs. I don't see it falling on the shoulders of soldiers. Or even Petraeus. They've been doing hurculean work.

Bush, however, never made the sale.

That's why there's so much stuff out there that's lopsided.

Beauchamp, on the other hand, like Dan Rather, is fixed on the spot of his own creation. Karma. We shouldn't really discount that there are people on both sides, capable of outrage.

A search for Shock Troops turns up nothing at TNR too. However Glenn Reynolds notes that TNR's search engine appears to be down. Am I the only one that suspects a little "house cleaning" is going on at TNR?

Del Dolemonte, Monica Lewinsky wanted to have Bill Clinton's baby. I kid you not.

But you can't get pregnant if the semen just lands on the dress.

So, I don't think Monica felt she "got the real thing." For her, it was appetizers and foreplay. For Bill? Just a passing fancy.

Lots of women get seduced, and then they get shafted. And, I've never heard one man step up to the plate and say, "Yes!" Most say "no." Discounting writing a woman's name, and/or her phone number on bathroom walls.

So, while you think "Mr. Handsome" went all the way. I still don't.

It appears that in order to obfuscate their plan to expand the Republican initiated S-Chip health program beyond the present young/poor kids that Bush favors, Democrats set up the injured lad in the S-Chip commercial to mislead the public into believing that injured kids "like him" weren't covered by S-Chip. The Democrats chose the lad and the words knowing that he was in fact presently covered but knowing also that MSM would help deflect valid criticism of the lad's misleading language by claiming such was an attack on the lad himself. Whether saint or sinner, take note before you allow yourself into the political arena ... MSM can't protect you any longer ... the internet will investigate and out your motives and your truthfulness.

http://www.observer.com/term/51326

TNR's Foer: Drudge's Documents Could Have Come Only From the Army

Franklin Foer, editor of The New Republic, said in an interview that the documents Matt Drudge posted this afternoon--and removed several hours later without explanation--could have only come from the Army.

Mr. Foer said he called TNR’s contact there, Major Kirk Luedeke, as soon as the documents appeared on Drudge’s Web site. According to Mr. Foer, Major Luedeke told him that the Army was “investigating the source of the leak,” though they did not explicitly take responsibility for it.

“It’s maddening to see the Army selectively leak to the Drudge Report things that we’ve been trying to obtain from them through Freedom of Information Act requests,” Mr. Foer said. “This fits a pattern in this case where the army has leaked a lot of stuff to right wing blogs.”

Note he does not dispute at all the accuracy of the documents and that says a lot

I think you meant "recoil," Carol. But speaking of rebounding, I sure hope that's what you So. Californians are able to do.

I wanna break this story down to the end now and save some people the misery of riding this train all the way off the cliff and into the ground:

Beauchamp: Me and my soldier pals are scum and this war made us that way; just read my stories in TNR

Weekly Standard: These stories kinda smell bad. Got any proof?

TNR: Absolutely. Nothing to worry about here; all above board and truthy like. Take our word for it.

Weekly Standard: Uh, ok, we're gonna have to call bullshit now.

Typical Moonbat: How DARE you question the integrity of a US soldier?!?!?

TNR: Yes, how DARE you do that! Apologize now; to him and us please.

Weekly Standard: The milbloggers have really sunk their teeth into this and it smells even worse now. The Army's investigating. C'mon, fess up.

TNR: Well we're investigating too. We'll have to get back to ya real soon.

Weekly Standard: The Army's done investigating. Beauchamp lied. What did you come up with?

TNR: (crickets...)

Beauchamp: (crickets...)

Typical Moonbat: The Army probably has Beauchamp locked in a dark room somewhere, possibly even beating him! Monsters!

Drudge: Neat. Look at these PDFs some helpful person in the military slipped me a little while ago.

Typical Moonbat: Those files are FAKE!!!

US Army: Nope, those files are accurate. That FOIA sure can be a bitch sometimes.

TNR: (crickets...)

Typical Moonbat: This proves absolutely nothing and I don't even care about TNR anyway. And also, STFU.

TNR: It is with regrets that we've accepted the resignations of Franklin Foer and Peter Scoblic who'd like to spend more time with their families. Couple other people might be doing the same thing real soon.

Typical Moonbat: What!!!!??!?!?!

Weekly Standard: Good grief, calm down moonbat. This wasn't that hard to see coming was it?

TNR: It is with regrets that we have to announce the end of this great publication. Apparently the remaining 47 subscribers are not willing to pony up the required $124,995 annual subscription fee; selfish bastards.

Typical Moonbat: STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

whippoorwill's shift has apparently ended. Who is his tag teammate?

I will give Private Beauchamp credit for one thing. He has apparently remembered the "First Rule of Holes" - When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

He has invoked his rights and shut his mouth. If he opens it to anyone those rights are gone and he's raw meat for the devouring. That's why he refuses to say anything.

I still can't grasp why the rightwingosphere cares so much about this. TNR was a prowar magazine and they got suckered by a guy trying to make a quick buck and a name I still don't see how this furthers the rights cause.

"I still can't grasp why the rightwingosphere cares so much about this. TNR was a prowar magazine and they got suckered by a guy trying to make a quick buck and a name I still don't see how this furthers the rights cause." - BARRASSO

It furthers this country's cause and the war she is fighting. Right and left shouldn't have a thing to do with it.

I guess it's because we don't think sliming the troops is a fair exchange for political support. YMMV.

Yeah, BARRASSO is right!

We shouldn't be condemning TNR for publishing the lies that fell out of Bo-chump's cockholster!

We should be circling the wagons and ignoring the facts!

I mean, are we just going to throw these idiots under the bus? Remember, at the very beginning of the war they supported it! Sure, times have changed and they don't support it or McChimpyBushHaliburton anymore, but c'mon! When facts become hurdles it's time to put our track shoes on!!

Grasp that.

One more manifestation of the "No Honor, No Shame" creed of the left. Kind of reminds one of the brazen pronouncements, always delivered with feeling and a straight face, by totalitarian vehicles like Pravda and the Red Chinese equivalent (New China News Agency?) denouncing the U.S. for holding political prisoners, being imperialist running dogs, etc. No Honor, No Shame -- the neo-Marxists on the left have learned well from their ideological antecedents.

It matters because lying about the troops and saying they are committing atrocities gives political ammunition to the enemy to use as propaganda. Propaganda that can, will, and has been used to stir up suicide bombers and enemy combatants to shoot at, make suicidal attacks, or set off explosives to kill our soldiers.

Soldiers like my son, serving there now.

I take it personally. For a supposed fellow soldier and a publication willing to publish lies, and then try to cover it up--lies that put soldiers like my son at risk is a very serious matter--especially to me.

I view the TNR staff with complete and utter contempt not worthy to breath the same air as my son and his true fellow soldiers. I view Beauchamp as a traitor willing to bring more harm to his own country's troops just to gain personal glory. He is beneath scum.

Personal glory in a profession that has become a despicable, hateful, pathetic and utterly useless waste of resources. Putting journalists like TNR in charge of covering and reporting the news is like putting child molesters in charge of a day care.

W-Will,

I appreciate your kind words, but will take issue with the "chickenhawk" meme that you put in. We live in a culture where our civilian leadership makes the decisions, and those decisions are based on the consent of the governed. It doesn't matter whether someone serves or not - being an American entitles them to an opinion.

The chickenhawk theme was total bullshit when some tried to use it against Bill Clinton for Bosnia and Kosovo, and it's bullshit now.

People serve this nation in many ways - they educate our young, start businesses that create jobs, or run farms that feed people. I can criticize a sanitation workers' strike, even though I'm not a garbage man. Yes, I should learn all I can before I speak, but it doesn't make my opinion irrelevent.

I think the chickenhawk cry is an attempt to shut down debate. Believe me, those of us in uniform can, and do, make big whoppers of mistakes. That we are in uniform doesn't make us immune to criticism(I just wish the press would show some of the good in addition to the criticism). However, one doesn't need to be in uniform to help create foreign policy. Trust me - you do NOT want me - ie, the military - making all the foreign policy decisions.

I guess the tag teammate is Barassoo. We have a fine new conservative Senator in Wyoming whose last name is Barrasso and he wouldn't post a comment, imo.

OKay. Captain Ed, I've been a steady customer, here, for a long while. And, I remember how you've told personal information ... that includes your management skills. That you ran a call center. You hired and fired people. And, I'd guess you have had to motivate them, too.

So, I'm going to ask for your expertise, here.

How can TNR survive by keeping Franklin Foer on the job?

Isn't that the bottom line, now?

Am I being mean?

Gosh. I'm trying to be logical. I'm trying to see how TNR can save itself.

While, as I said. Drudge GOT information. (From the Government's Information Act?)

FRom Beauchamp?

Gee. Beauchamp had to really hate that phone call from Foer and Scobie.

Again, if you were looking over all of this stuff, with a manager's eye, what would you see?

Yes. The problem.

But what about in the time left to TNR, what can they really do, now, that changes the focus "of TNR safeguarding their military writer, who can't get to a telephone," into something that better describes the truth?

Drudge, here, isn't going to let Foer destroy the Drudge Report! That would be a dumb move ... on par with "you know who" ... when he wrote a letter to Rush's employer.

There aren't too many clean exits, now, either.

Maybe, Foer thought Beauchamp would be the chump?

Foer's not what I'd call a first-class manager; that's fer shur.

I still don't see how this furthers the rights cause.

Has it occured to you that some people might do things because they think they are the right things to do, and not because they want to further some cause?

I bet that'll give you the creeps!

Am I alone in thinking that Scott's marrage is over, and has been for a few months?

Russ

I was hoping "end my Shift" on this thread but I will respond to your post.

If you are referring to my last post, that was meant to be a light hearted swipe at several commenter's who had accused me making a chickenhawk argument on one commenter whose cavalier remark struck as overly snide about Scott being in Iraq. Although, I don't believe in this instance I was making a real chickenhawk argument, I do believe the concept is valid.

I do respectfully disagree. When a Vice President supports a war and gets five deferments to avoid serving, that qualifies. And is amplified in current times by warmongering on a daily basis.

I was drafted in 1972 and my political connected repub father got me one of those cushy NG slots for the "upper crust". I told him no thanks, that I was nothing special and served my time honorably.

Carol,

That's a great question. I have never run a newspaper or magazine, and I don't really know the office dynamic of TNR. However, most people want to work in an effective organization for a leader they can trust and respect, and I can't see how TNR's staff can see Foer in those terms after this debacle.

My guess is that Marty Peretz looks for new help. Not only would that help the staff recover from this debacle, it allows him to put the blame on the outbound executive -- another grand tradition of American business regardless of industry type.

"I still can't grasp why the rightwingosphere cares so much about this."

Because you cannot understand why opposition to defamation. Which makes you like countless other progressives.

Is it possible that Scott is now sincere? Yes, It’s possible. Do I give a damn? No.

I don’t buy the “I’m here to do a job” routine. He’s trying to save his hide and he’ll throw anybody, including his wife, under the bus to stay afloat. He’s already thrown our country under the bus, including his “work partners” that he wants to stay loyal to today.

As for TNR….well, we pretty much saw this reaction about 2 months ago, didn’t we?

I smell real evil. Both from Scott and TNR --it just reeks.

And let’s talk about the wife….

Editor, please relay to my husband that “it’s the most important thing in the world for me that he not recant.” In other words, my hide is worth more than yours, dear. Also, it’s more important to me that you stick to the lie than to tell the truth that might eventually defeat terrorism. In other words, it’s more important that my warped view of the war be presented than your truth, dear Scott.

Oh, by the way, editor, don’t tell him that I love him. Just tell him not to recant. Don’t tell him that I am counting the days until he return home safely, tell him not to recant.

God…I just want to puke. I didn’t think this could get more disgusting.

And now, let’s talk about the editor, Frank.

He’s threatening Scott with his future career, but more importantly, his wife’s livelihood. I read very clearly in his comments that he will fire the wife if he recants.

What an evil man…simply evil.

"court marshaled"

This simple malapropism is yet another example of civilian's inability to understand the military. Hint: The greek god of war was Mars. Military bands play martial music.

This lack of understanding contributes to an inability to understand the severity of Beauchamp's transgression against his fellow soldiers.

The problem with this whole tempest in a teacup is that while this is a cause celeb for the right, maybe 1 in 500 dkos members have any idea what this is about.

Gee. Do we get "news" anymore? Look at all the areas where I know nothing.

Olmert, in Israel, keeps his mouth shut.

Something happened on September 6th. Where, somehow, Israel had time to do "something."

But not so, according to Assad.

Then, Turkey pipes in with fuel tanks.

And, Assad's "best comment" is that his anti-aircraft guns "chased the Israeli jets away.

We're also supposed to believe that Israel took a route INto syria, through Turkey? WHy? They went on a carnival tour? They flew "round-about?"

Oh, and what about the 24 hour blackout?

This was done by jet planes?

Why not people on the ground? Who found a way to short circuit the electrical grid?

You think you know stuff?

I dunno?

As to Beauchamp. And, Drudge.

Why did people jump to conclusions that Drudge printed fakes?

Ya know what? It wouldn't surprise me that Beauchamp kind'a dislikes TNR, now. And, given that his wife has been fired ...

Given how treacherous the phone call with Scobie and Foer to Beauchamp sounded to my ears ...

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Beauchamp, himself, validated the documents that Drudge "reports."

Too bad Drudge's radio show is history. It seems to me "he quit it."

But otherwise? You don't think Drudge could have gone on the air with Beauchamp?

What then? People would say that it wasn't Beauchamp?

How does anyone know anything? Given that TNR is the "big girl" with a hole blown thru her reputation; isn't that the mistake? Foer, the editor, caught in a news story about as "fake" as Dan Rather's attempts at distorting news with mumbo-jumbo?

Most of us haven't a clue what makes up "real news" anymore. As to Irak. I don't know what the polls are showing. But would Ron Paul be receiving "support" beyond his base, if Bush wasn't really laying eggs? Where's the news analysis about that?

Hey. I'm just asking! Americans love the troops. That's not the problem.

But what if there are some problems, now, that will expose Bush as being error prone? Unlucky, ahead. Rather than lucky.

You think just Franklin Foer is error prone?

Why are people paying attention, so early, to 2008 politics?

What was it like in 1979, when Jimmy Carter was laying eggs?

Ya know? Reagan reached the people in the middle!

He didn't handicap himself with the John Bircher's!

I also think Reagan was miles ahead, as a former governor of a pretty liberal state; than either Guiliani or Mitt Romney are now!

Why? Because I think having to appeal to the "Base" ... for primary votes ... is about as distructive a thing you could ask a politician to have to do. (Sometimes? I think THIS is Hillary's edge.)

Nobody, so far, has inherited Reagan's mantle!

He was just unique.

And, in way better charge of himself.

He also had a four year head start. He saw Gerald Ford LOSING; when he, himself, had tried to wrest the 1976 nomination! When Gerald Ford flamed ... Reagan was the one who walked the walk. And, talked the talk ... In every single by-way ... that offered him a living room ... where he could meet the locals. Personally, shake their hands. ANd, introduce himself. He didn't limit himself to Bob Jones University.

Heck, the John Birchers JOINED HIS TEAM. Not the reverse.

And, here we are ... trying to read tea leaves?

I will bet that Drudge, by the way, NEVER went public until he was really sure he had the details CORRECT.

He's not looking for another Sidney Blumenthal lawsuit.

This is TNR's mess. Has absolutely nothing to do with anybody else trying to pull coals out of the fire.

Ya know what? It doesn't affect Nancy. It doesn't affect Hillary. It doesn't even interrupt George Bush. Who is still laying eggs.

Chickenhawk is not a valid argument. It never was, and never will be. It's a simple ad hominem fallacy. It is also antithetical to freedom of expression to declare that the credibility of one's opinion on a war is dependent on whether they are serving in the military or have served in the military. There are millions of active-duty military personnel and veterans who share the same opinion on Iraq as the people W-Will calls "chickenhawks."

If John advances Argument A and it is invalid because John is a "chickenhawk," then what do people like W-Will say when current servicemember or veteran Tom advances Argument A? People like W-Will slink away with their tails between their legs until they see Tom walk away, and then return to their ad hominems.

Ya know what? It doesn't affect Nancy. It doesn't affect Hillary. It doesn't even interrupt George Bush. Who is still laying eggs.

Eric says:
So wrong. So profoundly wrong. Carol, get your head together -- you know better than this.

...maybe 1 in 500 dkos members have any idea what this is about.

Maybe 0 in 500 "dkos" members have any idea what anything is about. But even that estimate is probably too high.

whipped-poor-will said:

"I'm just another dumbass with a computer in a safe environment."

Parent's basement?

Other stuff in play here

About a month ago commenters on Scott's personal blog said TNR had shown his wife the door (right after the interview timeframe.

Other blogs have noted she is no longer listed as a researcher on TNR's masthead and that checks out.

Some are speculating that she and Scott via Scott's lawyer who had his permission to obtain the docs may have done a little payback, depending on a mixture of him seeing the light and doing a little payback to TNR.

One milblogger recently embedded in Iraq had a meet up with Scott and would't say what but that news would soon be breaking on the case and that was all he would say.

TNR has not been shy about sending their lawyers after fired leakers and may have pointed them at Drudge to pull the docs down.

Eric Classic, you think I feel great about the stuff I've said? Nope. It's just one of those things. Like nasty weather, due to arrive just when you have something special to celebrate.

Anyway, you get choices when you look at stories. You can take them separately. Or, together.

As to Beauchamp's story; why did Foer drag his feet? Obviously, he thought he had time on his hands. Especially, if he could say "the army had Beauchamp under wraps." And, then? He continued his accusatory tone.

But where's Beauchamp in this?

His wife's been fired.

He may not have much of a marriage.

So, he'd be carrying the biggest chip. And, he's got the weakest position.

Drudge ran with a real story.

This isn't a shot at stardom, like the "killed" Isakoff story on Monica.

But who sent Rush the heads up?

A democratic operative? That's a possibility.

Scobie? Well, don't detectives try to gather up as many possible suspects that they can? You don't eliminate stuff in the beginning.

Could Beauchamp have done this? Picking Drudge, because his feelers for writing jobs fell on deaf ears?

Whatever Drudge has. It checks out.

But Foer. He lagged. He decided to let others, on the Internet, take jabs at him every day. One thousand cuts. At least. And, he's stuck with a story that makes no sense.

Back at the end of August? TNR was closed for two weeks.

Now, all I know is that NO STORY seems to be getting through, just where there are critical breaks. (Except for the fires, here, in Southern California.)

In trouble in Afghanistan? Did I see a milblogger saying so on a Glenn Reynolds, InstaPundit link?

All the stuff that's been happening where Israel stays so quiet.

Maybe,it's the "quiet?" And, not just Foer picking silence!

Anyway, Eric. I just get one vote.

Millions of others will do the same.

In what seems like a media breakdown.

Where the choices, if I had been asked ... "are they worth it?" I'd have responded "slim." To "none."

Today, Drudge has up a headline on the Trillions in the hole, we are, for Afghanistan and Irak. Drudge says: $8000 per every American.

You think we're basically all very happy with the way things are?

Or is there stuff, ahead, that when it spills out ... becomes like a big forest fire?

Me? I didn't think Hillary had a chance! I also said, Bill would pull the rug out, because he doesn't want the "competition."

But what if the analysis is all wrong?

I'm glad you don't sound alarmed. That's a good sign.

Me? Feeling alarmed. Feeling as if there are chickens that are gonna come home to roost.

Even feeling that inside some mysteries are truths we don't suspect. Like Beauchamp, himself, going to Drudge. Just to get a fairer shake than he'd get as the tool that gets blamed at TNR.

Wow, the transcript of that July 17th phone call with Foer/Scobie. Odd.

That's why I asked Captain Ed, how managers deal with management crisis; where the company, itself, gets hit. And, could fall apart.

Bush? Where's the excitement that he's our president? What's going on?

What happens when you've hired a salesman and he can't sell diddley?

Are we there, yet?

More than one story ... and all have threads to them that just unravel.

By the way, if I sound confused, I am.

What's interesting is that Fabricating Franklin has come out swinging against the Army.

The documents may just as well have come from TNR or its lawyers. After all, Foer and Scoblic denied this call and the information therein until it popped up.

Look at this pattern of behaviour.

• Foer conceals "Scott Thomas's" identity, and his link to a TNR fact-checker.

• When a TNR insider leaks the fact that "ST" was married to Ellie Reeve, they conduct a Nixonian enemy hunt, and find and fire "throbert" the leaker.

  Not only Foer is involved in this, but Scoblic, Zengerle, and Marty Peretz.

• Beauchamp then waffles on the call. During the call, Foer threatens Scott with Ellie (or threatens Ellie's job -- read it as you may)

• Ellie is fired from TNR right after that. Fabricating Franklin having a spite attack?

• During the call (or at least, in the intro to the transcript), "Gene" is presented as Scott's lawyer provided by TNR; however, from his positions, it appears that he was actually TNR's lawyer. Someone (himself? Foer? the Army? The unknown drafter of the transcript?) is misrepresenting Gene.

• Foer demands that Beauchamp cancel other media contacts. Beauchamp complies.

• Foer then expresses outrage that Beauchamp is being held incommunicado by the Army, explicitly denying that he, several other TNR staffers including a lawyer, and Beauchamp have spoken.

• Jason Zengerle sends communications furthering the TNR/Foer misrepresentation that Beauchamp is being held incommunicado.
• Army PAO sources, stung by the repeated accusation that they are suppressing Beauchamp, tell several enquiring reporters that Beauchamp is free to talk to the media if he wants to. Beauchamp doesn't want to.

• Fabricating Franklin denounces that as a "leak" and reiterates that TNR has had no contact with Beauchamp.

• Army PAOs reveal the fact, but not the substance, of the call.

• Fabricating Franklin denounces that as a "leak."

• Meanwhile, Beauchamp has a brief conversation with a milblogger. The milblogger says that Beauchamp is going to "soldier his way out of trouble;" that he's well liked by his mates; and that he (the blogger) will keep their conversation confidential. But Beauchamp is free to talk to anyone.

• TNR goes to complete radio silence on the subject, but continues to posture as an authority on the war, and integrity. Thousands smirk.

• Unbeknownst to anyone but Pv1 Beauchamp, he has a Come to Jesus meeting with the big boss, the colonel commanding the Whole Damn Task Force. The colonel has many options... his choice is to give Beauchamp a chance to, oddly enough, "soldier his way out of this trouble." (it will be interesting to see if this is before Scott's conversation with the milblogger).

• Someone leaks the key investigation documents and a phone call transcript in two parts to Matt Drudge. Drudge puts the stuff up for less than a day, but many read the documents and pass them on.

• The documents expose Foer's knowledge the story was bogus -- and determination to stand by it. They also expose his despicable "Ellie" ploy. They show the effort that went into the investigation, and answer conclusively the question of the accuracy of Beauchamp's tales. Finally, they don't exactly make PV1 Beauchamp look like a stand-up guy.

• Fabricating Franklin denounces this latest "leak." While evading any discussion of the substance of it.

[Note: the above is supposed to be a bulleted list... something in our host's html parser is hosed, alas].

Many have compared this to the Stephen Glass and Jayson Blair cases. That's an inexact comparison, and here's why: in those cases, sociopathic writers conned their editors, and the editors (and publishers) cleaned house and apologized. In this case, the author backed down from his story, which a third party investigation conclusively disproved, but the editors and publisher laagered up and continued to defend the story, in the certain knowledge that it was false.

Scott Thomas Beauchamp is a kid with a talent for imagery and a good bit of growing up to do before he can be forgiven this bit of misconduct. Foer, on the other hand, is a grown man who has exposed himself as dishonest -- and incredibly small.

No doubt there are some who will still forgive Foer; they want truthiness, not truth, and Foer will give it to them.

Foer and crew are not the living incarnation of TNR. In any given journal or newspaper quality can change fluidly and radically depending on who is there, who's in charge, what the editorial line is, and how much latitude the staff is permitted. Were I the owner of TNR I would fire Foer and a lot of other people. I would do it in a staggered fashion until every last person involved in this was out. After, assuming the magazine hadn't folded by then, I would have the new editors write a letter of contrition laying all the facts out and outlining the magazine's strategy for avoiding this in the future. Brands can be saved, images can be rehabilitated, but the first step is to come clean. I've never agreed with TNR but it used to be at least interesting and, compared to the Kos Kids and their ilk, a much more respectable and honorable opposition. Before Foer they were downright Liebermanesque and still contrite enough about the Glass affair to not pull stunts like this.

It's good for conservatives to have opposition to their ideas intelligently explained. Such explanations, even if flawed, help us more effectively persuade those who disagree with us.

Foer needs to be shown the door, but I hope what used to be a decent magazine doesn't go under in the process.

Don't be surprised if an over-delayed Foer departure from the New Republic is followed by his own Ratheresque "fake but accurate" speaking tour. One given to an empty banquet room at the Don't Tell Motel in a seedy part of town with his voice barely audible over similar hucksters at the Starving Artists' paintings sale across the hall.

What is left of the New Republic in the Foer /Beauchamp wake (pun optional) will likely resemble a graying Katie Couric desperately trying to show more leg while the management scratches their heads wondering why their publication isn't selling any better than Couric's legs (it's the grin that puts them off... ) over at See-BS. An Air America redux, talking to the walls, of sorts while searching for the next curative gimmick.

What kept the New Republic afloat was being something besides the Left's usual lunatic fringe. Now any distinction from the rabid fringe has become unclear they will have destroyed their raison d'etre. Like Pinch's clown car at the NY Times the New Republic now circles the drain perhaps remaining fully oblivious that they've pulled the handle which has flushed themselves.

Ed,

I just used TNR's search engine at 1:40 a.m. PDT on Thursday. A search for "Cheney" brings up results. A search for "Beauchamp" or "scott thomas" brings up nothing.

They've erased him ... and still no comment from "The Editors."

Many readers here are missing the point of the whole Beauchamp story (perhaps intentionally so).

No one is smearing Scott. Many are offended by the lies he wrote which implied that conditions in Iraq had a profound and detrimental effect on our soldiers. Others feel that he should have been punished more severely for what they rightly view as defamation of his comrades in arms. Active duty, retired, former service and civilians are entitled to their opinion on the subject. He wrote what he wrote and should be criticized for it.

No one is smearing The New Republic. They knew Beauchamp wrote this piece of fiction before he entered Iraq. Scott put the deployment schedule on his website. Franklin Foer presented the "Baghdad Diarist" as an active duty critic of the war who was "reporting" from Iraq. Presenting fiction as fact is the most serious violation of journalistic ethics. The first obligation of any journalist is to tell the truth. Had the piece been presented as fiction, no one would have said anything.

The army had to investigate. Soldiers who insult civilians in the manner described and in the presence of superiors are not tolerated. It also implies a breakdown in discipline. Bradley fighting vehicles are not used for joyrides to run down dogs because it is misuse of government equipment and would endanger the lives of soldiers and civilians alike. Mass graves are the focus of considerable high level attention in Iraq. Desecrating them not only offends the local population, it destroys evidence needed to conduct a war crime investigation.

TNR smeared our troops. They said the events described in Shock Troops occurred when they knew thy did not. The author admitted the accounts were fiction. Foer and his management, if they hope to regain any credibility, should come clean. Absent that, anyone who buys a copy of their magazine or subscribes to it or advertises in it, defends this blatant lie.

Arch

Another example of a "liberal rag" getting busted by the new media with phony stories & fabricated documents; busted in another attempt to brainwash the civilian world into believing the American military personnel are nothing more than murderers, rapists, torturers, and all around evil people.

Liberals wonder why millions of us question their patriotism. The "We support the troops, but not the mission" theme has been proven "false" beyond any doubt. TNR is in the same bed with the NYT, WAPO, and all other MSM Liberal rag propaganda outlets; they have put their hatred for men/woman in uniform on display for all to see, as they are willing to go to any lengths to smear the entire military apparatus. The smear campaign leveled against General P was the real deal folks. A lengthy report could be made, detailing the constant smear campaign of our military put on by Liberal politicians and their bed partners since the beginning of the GWOT; even before that time frame.

How many pieces of our military infrastructure got shut-down during the Clinton administration?

Oh, so NOW it's a non-story? What about when all you leftists were using this SAME STORY as PROOF that the military was nothing more than a bloodthirsty killing machine? And this applies to EVERY leftist who has EVER commented on this blog, and you know it. Crybabies.

W-Will,

Thanks for acknowledging that you prefer a military dictatorship to democracy. As I am an Army officer, I would like to be considered for the post of "Supreme General and Ruler For Life."

After all, if your assertion of "chickenhawk" is valid - towards ANY elected member of government - then you are saying I should be one of the ones in charge.

Wow......what a world I will create with all my newfound power......

Russ

Chickenhawks are not barred from being anything they want to be. It also doesn't mean their rights to free speech are hindered in any way. The same is true for Moonbats, leftards, defeat-o-crats, America hating leftist commie pinko hippified traitorous Al Quaida loving liberals. Nor any of the dozens more insults conservatives visit on people like me every day. If your offended by the term and feel it's an unfair insult, then join the club of the insulted. Stay Safe.

W-Will,

But the chickenhawk slur isn't debate in the slightest - it is an attempt to stop debate. It IS saying those who haven't served have no right to weigh in on policy, or, if they are elected leaders, design that policy.

I have respect for those who say, "I disagree with Iraq for these reasons..."(said reasons could be a view we shouldn't be the world's policeman, the cost is too high, etc.). I might disagree with those reasons, but at ;east that's an attempt at honest debate.

The chickenhawk slur is not debate. And one does not justify one insult by saying they were insulted another time.

Clinton was my Commander in Chief, not a chickenhawk for getting out of the draft. Bush is my Commander in Chief, not a chickenhawk for going into the TANG. Let's have a debate about what to do in the region, not a contest of who can come up with the more insulting invective.

Russ

"But the chickenhawk slur isn't debate in the slightest - it is an attempt to stop debate. It IS saying those who haven't served have no right to weigh in on policy, or, if they are elected leaders, design that policy."

Clinton was and is not a Hawk, in my view and many others, so the term does not apply to him. He may have been a draft dodger, but that is something different. Having experienced similar things with the draft in those days, I am absolutely certain that Bush dodged service in Vietnam by getting one of the extremely rare slots for the NG or Reserves. Which was nearly always gained by people with money and power. You have to remember the role of the NG and reserve today are completely different than they were then. Only a handful these units were ever sent to Vietnam. Getting one of these slots was a sure way to stay out of the war. The only way was to volunteer for combat duty and Bush explicitly rejected that as a matter of record.

And I already mentioned Cheney's five deferments.

The term chickenhawk, for me applies to persons or leaders who promote the use of military force as a primary means of getting what they want, or in some cases seeming to revel in the idea of war for wars sake. The neocons are the primary example.

I'm sorry you see the term as stopping debate. For those few people it applies to maybe it would tend to do that, but I'm not sure if meaningful debate is possible with those folks, anyway.

I will also say that I am not an anti-war person as I fully supported the first Gulf War and voted
for George Bush SR. twice without regrets. I still think he was one the best foreign policy prez's
we've ever had. Not so with Jr.

"The chickenhawk slur is not debate. And one does not justify one insult by saying they were insulted another time."

No, the word chickenhawk is not debate, it is simply a descriptive term as I've already described. And one insult doesn't justify more insults, I agree, in a perfect world. Conservatives have expected liberals to play by these civilized rules and for the past 20 years they have delivered non-stop demeaning terms mostly questioning our patriotism for not agreeing with their world view.

Those days are over and there are new rules which is we will play by whatever rules republicans play by. More often than not that is whatever it takes to win.

W-Will,

Why, under your definition, was Clinton not a chickenhawk? He used the military more than any President up to that point since WWII. We were deployed virtually everywhere.

Also, I know no one - NO ONE - that "revels in war." War is always the last resort, but it IS sometimes necessary, and our ELECTED leaders make that call, regardless of their past. The VP was ELECTED, and I'm sorry if that upsets you.

"I'm sorry you see the term as stopping debate. For those few people it applies to maybe it would tend to do that, but I'm not sure if meaningful debate is possible with those folks, anyway."

Sorry, but this line of reasoning is bullshit. This sums up the reason most liberals act the way they do - conservatives view liberals as stupid, while liberals view conservatives as evil and unworthy of debate.

"More often than not that is whatever it takes to win."

Ends justify the means. That's great. I look forward to your support of my military junta, since folks like me are OBVIOUSLY the only ones that should be able to make this kind of a call. Democracy be damned...

"Sorry, but this line of reasoning is bullshit. This sums up the reason most liberals act the way they do - conservatives view liberals as stupid, while liberals view conservatives as evil and unworthy of debate."

"Bullshit". now there's a term for a real debater. Have I called any of your points bullshit.

And I don't recall referring to conservatives as evil and unworthy of debate. I have been debating you in a reasonable way up to now.

The reasons you can't debate conservatives is the serious thickness of their skulls and slavish reliance on their ideology. It is why republicans are unfit to govern alone as we've seen for the past 6 years. It is why 70 percent of Americans are fed up with GOP failures.

"Ends justify the means. That's great. I look forward to your support of my military junta, since folks like me are OBVIOUSLY the only ones that should be able to make this kind of a call. Democracy be damned..."

"Ends justify the means" You guys made this rule and we're gonna play the same way. Get used to it.
And the Junta remark and statement that liberals don't support democracy is not credible and I won't honor it with a response.

Clinton's, or any other presidents use of the military in certain situations, does not by itself make him a hawk or chickenhawk. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

Listen Russ, I think we're done here. This is becoming a shouting match and I don't really care for those, especially with a current soldier. You can have the last word.

Stay Safe and I mean that sincerely.